Page 2 of 2

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010 10:40
by Garen
ampart wrote:Something tells me he wasn't just the climate he was rushing back to....

Hello Ann Marie - one reason large numbers of soldiers did want to go back to India to continue their service was because a soldier's money went much further out there than back in the UK. Just another aspect to take into account.

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 27 Nov 2010 16:22
by Jane Masri
I was interested to read Liz's posting on soldiers wills.
Recently I was doing some research at TNA on my 2xgreat grandfather. He died of wounds in October 1857 at Lucknow, receiving the Indian Mutiny Medal with DL clasp.
In WO25/3258 (part 2)- Casualty Lists I found the following, 'Paid to Mrs. Mary White being the whole of the effects & credits of her late husband, no. 2058 Corpl. Patrick White of the 84th Reg. as per copy of will & receipts forwarded. 49 pounds 5 shillings and tuppence halfpenny. Wife Mary White with the Reg.'
Reading a few more entries in the book it seemed quite usual for rank & file to leave a will. Asking the researchers at Kew what might have happened to this will they surmised it would have been lodged with his service record which, sadly seems to have disappeared for good. Had it still existed, what a great find :D

Jane

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 15 Dec 2010 03:53
by Peter
Some sources:

1. Myna Trustram, Women of the Regiment. Marriage and the Victorian Army, Cambridge University Press, 1984

(Concerned with wives at home. However, a lot about the regiment and attitudes to army life. Illustrations)

2. AR Skelley, The Victorian Army at Home, McGill Queens University Press, Montreal, 1977, pp 30 & 31; 216 - 219

3. The Royal Engineers, In Her Britannic Majesty's Colonies of Vancouver's Island and British Columbia, (The Royal Engineers
Living History Group), The British Army, On the Strength: Wives and Children of the British Army,
http://www.royalengineers.ca/femnkid.html

4. http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk, Research, Woman’s Role, http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk/campfollowers.html

5. The Army Children Archive (TACA). Chronicling British army children’s history, http://www.archhistory.co.uk/taca/schooling.html

From a regimental officer's letter in 1843: " ..... his remarks re Soldiers wives ..... stops just where the evil begins - and that is that these wretched creatures are allowed to crowd into Barracks, with their starving children - some with families of 5, 6, 7 & 8 (I have this last number in the depot) taking up the room, bedding, tables, fires of the men - destroying their comfort, and all attempts at cleanliness - making the Soldiers discontented & driving them to the Canteen or Beer Shop and frequently to desertion. Soldiers wives, are generally the greatest nuisances ..... " [The Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research, 1987, LXV, No 262, p 117]

Regards,

Peter

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011 21:34
by jgordon.atkins
The photo below shows my great-great grandmother with my great-great-grandfather, Color Sergeant Samuel Alexander Atkins of the 6th Company of the 78th, and their 3 children upon the return of the 78th Highlanders from India in 1859. She had gone abroad with him in December 1845. The three children were all born abroad.

The eldest son (far right) was born in Aden, Arabia. The two girls were born in Poonah India.

Living "on the economy" was quite reasonable, and even enlisted personnel with families had one or more servants to assist them.

Color Sergeant Atkins was wounded thee times in the Relief of Lucknow, and recovered from his wounds during the period the Residency remained under siege following the efforts of the 78th to free it - 27 September 1857 to 22 November 1857. The photo shows the toll taken - he is only 35 years of age in the photo!

James Gordon Atkins, Jr.

Image+

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 10 May 2012 20:55
by susieH
Hi there

I'm interested in the wives of soliders. I'm having trouble tracking a wife. Are soliders mentioned on census' and if so are their wives and children also mentioned with them or seperately. I'm trying to track the whereabouts of the 12th regiment of foot. I have a marriage cert of them in the Uk in 1850 but nothing until they pop up in Australia with a kiddie about 1959. I believe the regiment went to Ireland in 1852 then on to Australia in 1854, surely that means that they are in the UK census of 1851. Any suggestions?

many thanks

Susie

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 10 May 2012 21:32
by Frogsmile
susieH wrote:Hi there

I'm interested in the wives of soliders. I'm having trouble tracking a wife. Are soliders mentioned on census' and if so are their wives and children also mentioned with them or seperately. I'm trying to track the whereabouts of the 12th regiment of foot. I have a marriage cert of them in the Uk in 1850 but nothing until they pop up in Australia with a kiddie about 1959. I believe the regiment went to Ireland in 1852 then on to Australia in 1854, surely that means that they are in the UK census of 1851. Any suggestions?

many thanks

Susie


If serving at home (in Britain) then my understanding is that soldiers and their families are listed under the relevant barracks for census returns. Here are the movements of the 12th Foot:

1842.04 1st Battalion, 12th (the East Suffolk) Regiment of Footredesignated as 1st Batt on formation of Reserve (i.e. a second) Battalion

1847 Mauritius (depot Isle of Wight) Reserve Batt also in Mauritius
1848 Portsmouth
1849 Weedon (Northants) with Reserve Batt still in Mauritius
1850 Chatham (Kent) Reserve Batt becomes 2nd Batt, still in Mauritius
1851 Chatham - 2nd Batt now in Cape of Good Hope (South Africa)
1852 Ireland (in October to Newry)
1854 Ireland (Belfast)
1855 Australia (depot Chatham) 2nd Batt still in Cape of Good Hope
1859 Tasmania (depot Deal) 2nd Batt in Fort George Scotland
1860 New Zealand (depot Walmer) 2nd Batt at Aldershot
1862 New Zealand (depot ditto above) 2nd Batt at Cork
1863 Australia (New South Wales) 2nd Batt at Curragh - depot for both Batts Chatham
1865 New Zealand - 2nd Batt at Seetapore - depot for both Batts Chatham
1867 England (Devonport) 2nd Batt Bengal - depot Gosport

Service in Australia 1854: one company of the 1st Battalion. which had proceeded to Cork, embarked there on the 18th January in the freight ship "Gloucester," and sailed on 20th for Van Dieman's Land. The second division of the regiment, consisting of 2 companies, under Captain Atkinson, embarked at Cork on board the transport "Empress Eugenie" on the 28th July, and disembarked at Melbourne on 6th November.

There is some information about families of the 12th who stayed in Australia here: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ances ... es12th.htm

And great detail about the regiment's time in the antipodes here:

1. http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ance ... istory.pdf

2. http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ance ... milies.pdf

The First Battalion went to Melbourne, Australia in 1854 and helped to suppress a miners' revolt at the Eureka Stockade. It moved to Tasmania, but during the next few years it was spread over Australia, with companies at Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane.

In 1860, two companies were sent to New Zealand to help contain the rebelling native Maoris. Further companies followed and over the next six years the Battalion took part in many actions against the Maoris in the dense and entangled bush of New Zealand. It was to earn the Battle Honour New Zealand for its services there.

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 11 May 2012 07:37
by Maureene
susieH wrote: Are soliders mentioned on census' and if so are their wives and children also mentioned with them or seperately. I'm trying to track the whereabouts of the 12th regiment of foot. I have a marriage cert of them in the Uk in 1850 but nothing until they pop up in Australia with a kiddie about 1959. I believe the regiment went to Ireland in 1852 then on to Australia in 1854, surely that means that they are in the UK census of 1851. Any suggestions?


The "UK" census was in fact one for England and Wales. There are separate Scottish censuses (I'm not too sure of dates), and I don't know about Ireland.

The first England and Wales census which mentions British regiments overseas was the 1911 census. Certainly in respect of British regiments in India the 1911 census data does not contain all the regiments which were actually there at the time. I have some family members who appear in the 1911 census as a British Army soldier and family in India. The wife and children are listed separately, but in the same data subset. I also have another British Army soldier family member who was in India at the time who does not appear.

Perhaps for the 1851 census the Regiment was not in England or Wales, or if they were, for some reason just weren't included.

Cheers
Maureen

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 11 May 2012 10:05
by Frogsmile
Maureene wrote:
susieH wrote: Are soliders mentioned on census' and if so are their wives and children also mentioned with them or seperately. I'm trying to track the whereabouts of the 12th regiment of foot. I have a marriage cert of them in the Uk in 1850 but nothing until they pop up in Australia with a kiddie about 1959. I believe the regiment went to Ireland in 1852 then on to Australia in 1854, surely that means that they are in the UK census of 1851. Any suggestions?


Perhaps for the 1851 census the Regiment was not in England or Wales, or if they were, for some reason just weren't included.

Cheers
Maureen


As per above, in 1850-51 the 12th were in England (Chatham), moving to Ireland in Oct 1852.

army pay docked for illegitimate children?

PostPosted: 26 Sep 2014 08:58
by Gillies51
Could anyone help, please?

My great-grandmother,Rebecca, had her first child out of wedlock in 1892 and used the Sheriff Court in Dumbarton, Scotland to establish my grand-father as the father, although he was not present in court. They married in 1898.

As my great-grandfather was in the 1st Dunbartonshire Rifle Volunteer Corps I was wondering whether Rebecca might have needed to prove paternity to allow her to have the payment she subsequently secured deducted from his army pay?

I have been unable to trace Donald's whereabouts in this period and he does not appear in the 1891 census.

Thank you for your help.

Midge

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 11 Apr 2016 00:20
by FernNZ
My g/g grandmother Ann Timmins born around 1811 Limerick Ireland gave birth to 2 girls in Mauritius, Ann, 1839 & Catherine 1843.
Her husband Patrick was obviously in the British forces at the time as she was living in the ? Barracks, Portsmouth when he died,around 1848 but I can't find a record of him. Seems he died by 1848 because wife Ann remarried then.
Would it be easier for me to find any records of his wife Ann, like his death certificate/pension or the likes & where could I find these records.? It seems odd that his record is so hard to find when wife Ann's 2nd husband,Isaac Taylor, I had no problem at all.Isaac was in the Suffolk Regiment 12th foot.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Re: Researching individual army wives, widows & children

PostPosted: 11 Apr 2016 09:25
by crimea1854
Fern

The problem you have is that, on the death of a man, the Army saw no point in retaining his service details and they were destroyed. To find out more about his service you would have to research the Regiment's Muster Rolls, but unfortunately this cannot be done on-line, only at the National Archives.

Since the 12th were in Mauritius from 1837 to the mid 1840's, there is a very good chance her first husband was also in the same Regiment.

Martin