Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 06 Jan 2017 15:00

yes, found lots on national archives and london gazette and newspaper archives..
still working through it and putting it in order..
mainly military notices and bancruptcy like the one you found...
Thanks.

BingandNelsonFan wrote:Okay, that is definitely the same thing. :)

Am still having a look for the coat of arms and crest, but I ran across this little notice in the Bury and Norwich Post (28 Feb 1865, page 8). It mentions that the bankruptcy is waiting on info relating to Holmes' father's will and his marriage settlement. Obviously, the family is pretty well to do (at least in the earlier 19th century). Having a look at his father's will may offer some good clues.

Second clipping states that Holmes of was Greater Yarmouth, Norfolk. That might help in locating him!

Sarah
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 06 Jan 2017 15:10

1861 census has the family living with 6 servants and maids! so doing quite well despite redundancy? still lots to investigate...
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 06 Jan 2017 15:14

Here is RC Holmes' marriage announcement from the "Weston-super-Mare Gazette" (7 Apr 1855, page 2).
This states that his father was the late David Holmes, Esq., of Lower Belgrave street, Eaton-square.
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 06 Jan 2017 15:18

Andy2015 wrote:1861 census has the family living with 6 servants and maids! so doing quite well despite redundancy? still lots to investigate...


Bankruptcies often happen like that. It's often hard to unearth reasons on things like that.

Here's a birth notice for RC. He was born in Rome --- which explains why I can't find anything in England. :) This was in the "Morning Post" 6 May 1824, page 4.
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby crimea1854 » 06 Jan 2017 15:19

I note from his will he died in Southend on Sea at the Ship Hotel: http://pubshistory.com/EssexPubs/Southend/ship.shtml

His father, David, served with the 9th in the Peninsular War fighting at Nivelle and Nive.

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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 06 Jan 2017 15:25

BingandNelsonFan wrote:
Andy2015 wrote:1861 census has the family living with 6 servants and maids! so doing quite well despite redundancy? still lots to investigate...


Bankruptcies often happen like that. It's often hard to unearth reasons on things like that.

Here's a birth notice for RC. He was born in Rome --- which explains why I can't find anything in England. :) This was in the "Morning Post" 6 May 1824, page 4.


Great, i saw.. "house, Italy" on a record, wasnt sure if it was Italy House here in the uk or as you say, Italy, Rome..
I am collecting all documents.... i will check newspaper archives for the paper.
Great again.. Thanks
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 06 Jan 2017 15:27

Here is another little clue. This is a marriage announcement for RC's father, David. It came from the "Bristol Mirror" 3 May 1823, page 4.
This states that he is the second son of the late R. Holmes of Balyadam, Limerick. Knowing that the family is Irish (at least this branch of them) is helpful, but that's going to be why it's hard to see anything about them. Irish records are hard to come by . . . for many reasons. This gets it a little farther, though!

Interesting that he died at the Ship Hotel. I haven't been able to find anything more than a little death notice yet.

Also, here is a death notice for his father from the "Morning Chronicle" 3 May 1854, page 8. It gives his whole address. :)

Sarah
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 06 Jan 2017 15:28

crimea1854 wrote:I note from his will he died in Southend on Sea at the Ship Hotel: http://pubshistory.com/EssexPubs/Southend/ship.shtml

His father, David, served with the 9th in the Peninsular War fighting at Nivelle and Nive.

Martin


Great thanks, i found a TNA record dated 1812 for him, 9th Foot Reg.
Great photo`s, where did you get his service details.. its on my list?
Did they have service records or it is a case of researching regiment details?
Apparently an officer his father? still to investigate?
Used to WW1 so new to prior to 1900..
Thanks so much!
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 06 Jan 2017 15:29

BingandNelsonFan wrote:Here is another little clue. This is a marriage announcement for RC's father, David. It came from the "Bristol Mirror" 3 May 1823, page 4.
This states that he is the second son of the late R. Holmes of Balyadam, Limerick. Knowing that the family is Irish (at least this branch of them) is helpful, but that's going to be why it's hard to see anything about them. Irish records are hard to come by . . . for many reasons. This gets it a little farther, though!

Interesting that he died at the Ship Hotel. I haven't been able to find anything more than a little death notice yet.

Sarah


Great, will check it out too, i found a note saying of apoplexy, apparently like an aneurysm today, stroke, heart attack etc
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 06 Jan 2017 15:36

.
Last edited by Andy2015 on 08 Apr 2017 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby rclpillinger » 07 Jan 2017 23:48

Andy, there is a very detailed chapter on the lay-out and events at Kirkee that met the Tenth when they arrived at the station, in chapter 27 of Colonel Liddell's History of the Tenth Hussars.

When the Regiment arrived in 1846, their first posting to the sub-continent, the cantonment is described as a

cavalry station of the Bombay Presidency, and there the whole of the first tour of service in India was passed by the Tenth, as it was a period of perhaps a longer continued peace than had existed in that country..

It goes on to describe the station as

laid out very much after the same manner as would be an encampment under canvas, but it naturally extended over a greater area and was on a much larger scale. The lines in which the horses were picketed in the open without any shelter were in the front. Then came the troop lines, with the married soldiers' quarters on either flank. In rear of the troop lines, and between them and the first line of Officers' bungalows, was the general foot parade ground, which served also as a cricket ground. Then came the subalterns', the captains' and the field-officers' lines in succession. The cantonment was intersected and traversed by excellent macadamised roads, along which were planted trees already grown to a considerable size. These, besides adding greatly to the beauty of the place, were valued greatly for their shade. The mess-house, centrally situated in the field officers' lines, was a large separate building provided with detached mess sergeants' quarters and other necessary outbuildings. The Tenth purchased the mess property of the 14th Light Dragoons just as it stood; the only subsequent change to it was the addition to the mess house of a large room for a second billiard table, which was also used as a library.

As the Tenth arrived as an addition to the strength in India rather than as a replacement to a homeward bound regiment they could not take over the horses of the departing regiment, and so they had to purchase new mounts, and the first 150 did not arrive until seven months later. Thus the first inspection by Major General McNeil, the Commander of the Poona Division, on the 16th Jan 1847, was made with the Tenth still on foot. A covered riding yard had been added by the time the horses arrived, most of which were Arabs, although the Regiment had hoped for mainly Cape horses. It took the rough-riders six weeks to get them into shape.

The Tenth found that the uniform as laid down in the Dress Regulations of 1846 were pretty unsuitable for the heat and so the busby was replaced by a shako, with white cotton clothing for ordinary wear, consisting of a stable jacket and overalls made of a cotton material called American Drill, and a white cotton cover worn on the shako with curtain hanging down sufficiently forward to protect the temples as well as the back of the head and neck. At balls and on dress occasions the officers still appeared in the lace jacket with pelisse slung and scarlet overalls, and at mess the blue stable jacket was worn.

There is a fair bit more but space may limit it. I shall add a picture of the uniform if it is of any use.

Richard
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 08 Jan 2017 22:51

rclpillinger wrote:Andy, there is a very detailed chapter on the lay-out and events at Kirkee that met the Tenth when they arrived at the station, in chapter 27 of Colonel Liddell's History of the Tenth Hussars.

When the Regiment arrived in 1846, their first posting to the sub-continent, the cantonment is described as a

cavalry station of the Bombay Presidency, and there the whole of the first tour of service in India was passed by the Tenth, as it was a period of perhaps a longer continued peace than had existed in that country..

It goes on to describe the station as

laid out very much after the same manner as would be an encampment under canvas, but it naturally extended over a greater area and was on a much larger scale. The lines in which the horses were picketed in the open without any shelter were in the front. Then came the troop lines, with the married soldiers' quarters on either flank. In rear of the troop lines, and between them and the first line of Officers' bungalows, was the general foot parade ground, which served also as a cricket ground. Then came the subalterns', the captains' and the field-officers' lines in succession. The cantonment was intersected and traversed by excellent macadamised roads, along which were planted trees already grown to a considerable size. These, besides adding greatly to the beauty of the place, were valued greatly for their shade. The mess-house, centrally situated in the field officers' lines, was a large separate building provided with detached mess sergeants' quarters and other necessary outbuildings. The Tenth purchased the mess property of the 14th Light Dragoons just as it stood; the only subsequent change to it was the addition to the mess house of a large room for a second billiard table, which was also used as a library.

As the Tenth arrived as an addition to the strength in India rather than as a replacement to a homeward bound regiment they could not take over the horses of the departing regiment, and so they had to purchase new mounts, and the first 150 did not arrive until seven months later. Thus the first inspection by Major General McNeil, the Commander of the Poona Division, on the 16th Jan 1847, was made with the Tenth still on foot. A covered riding yard had been added by the time the horses arrived, most of which were Arabs, although the Regiment had hoped for mainly Cape horses. It took the rough-riders six weeks to get them into shape.

The Tenth found that the uniform as laid down in the Dress Regulations of 1846 were pretty unsuitable for the heat and so the busby was replaced by a shako, with white cotton clothing for ordinary wear, consisting of a stable jacket and overalls made of a cotton material called American Drill, and a white cotton cover worn on the shako with curtain hanging down sufficiently forward to protect the temples as well as the back of the head and neck. At balls and on dress occasions the officers still appeared in the lace jacket with pelisse slung and scarlet overalls, and at mess the blue stable jacket was worn.

There is a fair bit more but space may limit it. I shall add a picture of the uniform if it is of any use.

Richard


Nice details, thank you, a picture would be interesting to see the uniform, he was a Captain at some point before retiring.. Thanks for the details.
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby rclpillinger » 09 Jan 2017 18:06

Andy, the roll of Officers for the Tenth indicates that Captain Holmes joined the Tenth as a Lieutenant in 1850 when the Regiment was in India,and retired as a Captain in 1857 when stationed in England.

Curiously enough Liddell does not specifically list his arrival in the Regiment as he does with most other Officers transferring in, but does mention him when he retires.

Richard
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 09 Jan 2017 18:15

rclpillinger wrote:Andy, the roll of Officers for the Tenth indicates that Captain Holmes joined the Tenth as a Lieutenant in 1850 when the Regiment was in India,and retired as a Captain in 1857 when stationed in England.

Curiously enough Liddell does not specifically list his arrival in the Regiment as he does with most other Officers transferring in, but does mention him when he retires.

Richard



That is great and fills in so much detail enabling me to narrow down the possible date of the cigar case!
Thanks so much..
Great information..
And thanks for the documents.
Andy
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Re: Researching Captain Robert Charles Holmes 10th Hussars

Postby Andy2015 » 09 Jan 2017 19:14

Andy2015 wrote:
rclpillinger wrote:Andy, the roll of Officers for the Tenth indicates that Captain Holmes joined the Tenth as a Lieutenant in 1850 when the Regiment was in India,and retired as a Captain in 1857 when stationed in England.

Curiously enough Liddell does not specifically list his arrival in the Regiment as he does with most other Officers transferring in, but does mention him when he retires.

Richard



That is great and fills in so much detail enabling me to narrow down the possible date of the cigar case!
Thanks so much..
Great information..
And thanks for the documents.
Andy



I guess there aren`t service records as such from that period?
i have a record joining the 59th regiment of foot in 1840 aged 16 from TNA..
Where could he have been between 1840 and joining india as Lieutenant in 1850?
In 1841 have a record saying ensign, 59th foot, Depot, Templemore, Cork & jersey..
Plus lots of london gazette records i am slowly going through to put them in order...
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