Khaki in the Second Afghan War Question

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Re: Khaki in the Second Afghan War Question

Postby rd72 » 03 Apr 2015 21:22

jf42 wrote:That picture of the 92nd is interesting, since the general impression from sources and photos is that khaki drill and the drab serge Norfolk-style jackets were worn over the red frock, when troops 'doubled up' in cold weather- although I fidn it hard to see how a dyed drill frock would fit over a frock or what extra warmth it might impart. Any port in a storm...


jf,

I certainly echo your observations about layering the khaki frock over the red... They don't look like they even come close to being loose enough, especially at the collar. The Norfolks, (and other poshteen-y type coats) on the other hand, do... All the mention of "doubling up" and layering has me wondering,..... if it was so cold (and it can be in winter there) where were the greatcoats?....

As for the 92nd painting, it seems to lack any real detail... There is no lever on the rifle, the cutaway at the front is rather poorly depicted and there are no details on the cuff of the frock... Might it have been khaki and the artist made it red for effect? I assume that it is a blanket over the shoulder and not the greatcoat otherwise might he have been wearing it in such chilly conditions?

By the mixed dress in the 78th photographs, I take it that traditional colours were worn in garrison as much as khaki? Thoughts?
Cheers,
Rob
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Re: Khaki in the Second Afghan War Question

Postby jf42 » 03 Apr 2015 22:35

Albert J wrote:jf42,

Really great stuff. I don't know how I missed the previous threads you posted the links to, but truly insightful.
When can we expect the book? :)

James


Thanks for those kind words. I have been asking myself the same question, as the paragraphs mounted up. I think it might have to be a collaborative work... I wonder if Mark fancies starting up an imprint? 8)
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Re: Khaki in the Second Afghan War Question

Postby jf42 » 03 Apr 2015 22:48

rd72 wrote:
jf42 wrote:That picture of the 92nd is interesting, since the general impression from sources and photos is that khaki drill and the drab serge Norfolk-style jackets were worn over the red frock, when troops 'doubled up' in cold weather- although I fidn it hard to see how a dyed drill frock would fit over a frock or what extra warmth it might impart. Any port in a storm...


jf,

I certainly echo your observations about layering the khaki frock over the red... They don't look like they even come close to being loose enough, especially at the collar. The Norfolks, (and other poshteen-y type coats) on the other hand, do... All the mention of "doubling up" and layering has me wondering,..... if it was so cold (and it can be in winter there) where were the greatcoats?....

As for the 92nd painting, it seems to lack any real detail... There is no lever on the rifle, the cutaway at the front is rather poorly depicted and there are no details on the cuff of the frock... Might it have been khaki and the artist made it red for effect? I assume that it is a blanket over the shoulder and not the greatcoat otherwise might he have been wearing it in such chilly conditions?

By the mixed dress in the 78th photographs, I take it that traditional colours were worn in garrison as much as khaki? Thoughts?


It is a fair question isn't it? Where were those greatcoats? They had them at Gandamak { EDIT: in 1842} after all... (see below).

As for the painting, William Skeoch Cummming was only 15 or so when the British columns marched on the passes in 1878, so we can be sure that that lone, shivering Gordon Highlander was not painted from first hand observation. The problematic details are especially odd, since Cumming painted an alternative view of Gordon Highlanders enjoying a chilly stand-to during the Afghan winter of 1879-80- and it is gratifying to note that greatcoats are unmistakably in use.

Screen Shot 2015-04-03 at 22.29.47.png
Screen Shot 2015-04-03 at 22.29.47.png (410.75 KiB) Viewed 470 times


As for the 78th at Kandahar, It is interesting to note how wide a selection of clothing that a late Victorian Highland battalion thought it necessary to tote with them when marching into a foreign kingdom, even if it was 'only' as an occupation force.
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Re: Khaki in the Second Afghan War Question

Postby susancammas » 16 Feb 2016 13:44

[quote="jf42"]Some gunners in khaki frocks.

Good morning

Is there by any chance a date on this photo???

Thanks
Susan
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Re: Khaki in the Second Afghan War Question

Postby jf42 » 16 Feb 2016 20:40

Greetings, Susan. The online sources for this photograph- which include the National Army Museum, don't offer a more specific date than circa 1879. I hope that is a help.

JF
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