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Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2014 18:26
by Rusteze
Came across these so thought I would post them.

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Steve

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 00:00
by paul kennedy
Thanks for sharing.

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 03 Feb 2014 03:23
by rd72
Hi there,

Not having much knowledge on the subject, I couldn't help but notice that the Infantry were armed with carbines. Was there specific reasons for this?

Cheers,
Rob

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014 02:35
by roconn
Rob:
It was a definite decision of Wolseley to arm the composite force with Martini-Henry carbines - although not much reasons given.
One can only surmise that for a lighter bullet, a handier over all length and the need for a long range just wasn't there in the really quite thick jungly bits on the march from the sea to Kumasi

roconn

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2014 11:20
by Frogsmile
roconn wrote:Rob:
It was a definite decision of Wolseley to arm the composite force with Martini-Henry carbines - although not much reasons given.
One can only surmise that for a lighter bullet, a handier over all length and the need for a long range just wasn't there in the really quite thick jungly bits on the march from the sea to Kumasi

roconn


Yes I think that you have it spot on. Wolseley and his staff officers (the embryo 'Ashanti Ring') put great effort into the planning of this difficult expedition (he wrote later it was the most horrible war he ever served in). Logistic considerations in particular were key and, unlike many generals of the time, he personally took great care in that regard. The short length of the carbine was handier in thick jungle, the bullet lighter and so a little easier to transport via manual labour (native porters). Recoil was also less and so at the short ranges concerned musketry was likely to be more accurate. In short, it was a win, win, win, choice and speaks a great deal about Wolseley in his younger days.

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2014 15:58
by jf42
I am a bit confused. 'Ashanti Photographs 1895'- Martin-Henry carbines- Wolseley and his staff- "in his younger days"...

I might be missing something but which campaign is under discussion exactly? I am not sure how the above components fit together.

It would help if the OP photos hadn't been taken down!

IIRC, weren't the Ashantee EF of 1874 armed with Sniders?

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2014 21:16
by Frogsmile
jf42 wrote:I am a bit confused. 'Ashanti Photographs 1895'- Martin-Henry carbines- Wolseley and his staff- "in his younger days"...

I might be missing something but which campaign is under discussion exactly? I am not sure how the above components fit together.

It would help if the OP photos hadn't been taken down!

IIRC, weren't the Ashantee EF of 1874 armed with Sniders?


You are right JF and I missed the 1895 dating. In my enthusiasm I have taken all previous posts as read and have possibly made the cardinal mistake of firmly grasping the wrong end of a stick only to beat myself incomprehensible with it.

I am assuming this is about the 1874 Ashanti war that involved the 2nd/23rd, the forty twa and 3rd RB. I am not clear in my mind about the Snider/MH usage, but I do know that a great deal of thought went into the logistics planning. I felt that this was in Wolseley's younger period as a general, given that it was supposedly a gathering of several of his old team from the Red River expedition from when he first came to notice as a field commander.

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2014 21:42
by jf42
Frogsmile wrote:

You are right JF and I missed the 1895 dating. In my enthusiasm I have taken other posts as read and had possibly made the cardinal mistake of grasping the wrong end of a stick only to beat myself incomprehensible with it..


I think I may have just pulled an abdominal muscle. Appropriate emoticon.

Frogsmile wrote: I am assuming this is about the 1874 Ashanti war that involved the 2nd/23rd, the forty twa and 3rd RB. I am not clear in my mind about the Snider/MH usage, but I do know that a great deal of thought went into the logistics planning. I felt that this was in Wolseley's younger period as a general, given that it was supposedly a gathering of several of his old team from the Red River expedition from when he first came to notice as a field commander


Yes,all fair points. I am easonably confident about the Snider in 1874 and the 1895 EF was equipped with MH carbines, for all the reasons suggested.

<http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Tkm5UZJz8z0C&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=Ashantee+42nd+Snider&source=bl&ots=lAxRRuP3iP&sig=WJM61bY0M6KUdsm150kC0uqvWBI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SLYQVNS4JpTo7Aa204DwCw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Ashantee%2042nd%20Snider&f=false>

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2014 22:47
by rd72
Hi all,

Came across this from N&A Illust.

Image

Medical Corps, yes, but does have the MH carbine. Note the P82...

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2014 23:40
by mike snook
In the second war they used short barrelled Snider-Enfields, normally the preserve of rifle regiments, (which one of three was in any case). 23rd (RWF), 42nd (Black Watch) and one or the other bns of the Rifle Bde. It is probably that which you are (almost!) remembering Frogsmile. :D

As ever

M

PS. I see you've already listed the bns anyway.

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2014 11:56
by Frogsmile
mike snook wrote:In the second war they used short barrelled Snider-Enfields, normally the preserve of rifle regiments, (which one of three was in any case). 23rd (RWF), 42nd (Black Watch) and one or the other bns of the Rifle Bde. It is probably that which you are (almost!) remembering Frogsmile. :D

As ever

M

PS. I see you've already listed the bns anyway.


Yes that was it Mike. I think it was the third war though. Those pesky Ashanti seem to have been persistent blighters :wink:

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2014 11:56
by Frogsmile
rd72 wrote:Hi all,

Came across this from N&A Illust.

Medical Corps, yes, but does have the MH carbine. Note the P82...


What is the date of that image Rob? It's a great picture of the 5-button frock and canvas gaiters and presumably from around 1895.

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2014 15:46
by mike snook
F

I promise you it is in fact commonly referred to as the Second Ashanti War, (or Anglo-Ashanti War) with, much like Battles of El Teb, not the strictest sequential adherence to all intervening rounds of conflict. Obviously it wasn't me who decided this! I think the expression is, 'It's just the way it is'. (!)

As ever

M

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2014 16:20
by rd72
Frogsmile wrote:
What is the date of that image Rob? It's a great picture of the 5-button frock and canvas gaiters and presumably from around 1895.


Frogsmile,
The issue is from January 1896 and the description certainly describes the man (Staff Patten) as a member of the "current" Ashanti expedition... I'm not an expert on the MH Carbine but I think it is an Artillery pattern due to the bayonet lug on the upper band... A MK II or III perhaps, by the fore end.

A Mk I... Shown for the bayonet lug..
Image

Re: Ashanti Photographs 1895

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2014 16:44
by Frogsmile
mike snook wrote:F

I promise you it is in fact commonly referred to as the Second Ashanti War, (or Anglo-Ashanti War) with, much like Battles of El Teb, not the strictest sequential adherence to all intervening rounds of conflict. Obviously it wasn't me who decided this! I think the expression is, 'It's just the way it is'. (!)

As ever

M


Thanks Mike, mea culpa. I had seen it misrepresented (serially so!), but that is no excuse and I should have realised that you of all people would have secured your ground. To borrow from (and selectively misquote) Lady Bracknell - to make one faux pas in a single thread may be regarded as misfortune - to make a second looks like carelessness. Time to retire from this subject for a period of quiet introspection methinks..... :oops: