CORPS OF ENGINEERS

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CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby acanthus » 03 Dec 2017 21:28

Does anyone know the specific date when the Bengal, Madras, and Bombay Engineers became entitled to , or adopted the badge of the Field piece surmounted by the word UBIQUE, and below the motto QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT.
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby jf42 » 05 Dec 2017 00:50

Forgive my ignorance, but that seems more like the badge of an artillery unit. Would the engineers not have an exploding bomb/grenade for their emblem ? From 1832, the Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers shared the same mottos- 'Ubique' and 'Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt'
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby acanthus » 05 Dec 2017 04:52

Hi jf42,

The Corps of Royal Engineers, usually just called the Royal Engineers, and commonly known as the Sappers, is one of the corps of the British Army. It is highly regarded throughout the military, and especially the Army.

Motto: Ubique and Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt ("Everywhere" and "Where Right And Glory Lead"; in Latin fas implies "sacred duty")


This is often displayed on the blades of Royal Engineers swords, and as per previous post, it also includes a field piece the word UBIQUE above and Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt on a scroll below the field piece.
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby t100 » 05 Dec 2017 07:07

Hello Acanthus

I'm sure jf42 knows who the Royal Engineers are. As he implies, your summary of the badge a "Field piece surmounted by the word UBIQUE, and below the motto QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT" is a good description of the badge of the Royal Artillery, not the Engineers. Are we missing something?

T
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby acanthus » 05 Dec 2017 10:42

t100
Dear Sir,

I quote for your reference the official listing for the BENGAL ENGINEERS as per the Indian Army an Civil Service List for January 1862 as follows:

114 [Meerut.
BENGAL

CORPS OF ENGINEERS

The Royal Arms and Supporters, with a Cannon. "Ubique" over the Gun, and Quo Fas et Gloria ducunt below it.

Whilst I do not dispute the fact that it applies to the Royal Artillery, you may in fact be missing the fact that it also applies to the Engineers.
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby t100 » 05 Dec 2017 12:39

Acanthus

Apologies, I clearly offended you with the tone of my reply, which I understand. Of course I accept the evidence you present, which is both new and surprising to me, though I find from googling the extract that this is actually well attested in many places.

I note for general interest of others like myself that the cannon was part of the RE badge between 1832 and 1868. My focus is strongly on 1881-1902, hence my ignorance.

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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby acanthus » 06 Dec 2017 03:21

Thanks T,

Based on available information, I can only assume that Bengal, Madras and Bombay Engineers took to using Ubique" over the Gun, and Quo Fas et Gloria ducunt below it circa 1861-62, that is unless someone has more specific information.

Known EIC0 Engineers swords shoe no evidence of this type of marking, and it doesn't appear in the EIC lists up and including 1860.
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby t100 » 06 Dec 2017 13:47

That would certainly make sense in the wider political context

T
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Re: CORPS OF ENGINEERS

Postby colsjt65 » 06 Dec 2017 21:24

Short answer seems that it would be:
On 1 April 1862 the Bengal, Bombay, Madras Engineers were amalgamated into the Corps of Royal Engineers and officers re-designated RE (records prior to 1862 used Eng.). To complete the integration process the officers were trained at the Royal Military Academy, Woolwich and then at the School of Military Engineering, Chatham, as were all Royal Engineer officers

from - https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Madras_Engineers

Before its abolition in 1855, the Royal Artillery, the Royal Engineers (officers) and Corps of Sappers and Miners (other ranks) were all part of the Board of Ordnance and from 1832 shared the regimental motto, Ubique' & 'Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_Ordnance
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