British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 14 Oct 2016 14:04

I meant to post that link and totally forgot! :) Here is is, and you'll see the note about Sanguinetti on the bottom of page 296.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fhMQAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22Ippolito+Sanguinetti%22&q=Sanguinetti#v=onepage&q=Sanguinetti&f=false

Frogsmile wrote:One aspect that seems worth pursuing is what possible role, what seems to be a formal military mission (given the uniforms) by the British to Italy, might have had in connection with Egypt. I imagine that such a mission, if that is what it is, would be well recorded in the British press. Britain surely did not need advice about Egypt at that time and given the involvement of Italy mentioned by Mark, nor it seems did they. So why Egypt?


That's a good point, so I will see about having a look through the newspapers and see if anything turns up. Are we thinking that this event (whatever type of event caused this group to get together, that is) took place around 1882?

Sarah
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby Mark A. Reid » 14 Oct 2016 15:53

Yes, I think Frogsmile makes a valid point, this is almost certainly a military mission of some sort; a general officer to return the toasts at dinner, two colonels to draft the actual documents and a junior officer to look after the luggage! The order of dress is most interesting, the headress reflecting their Mediterranean status, although depending on the season they may well have been brushing snow off their sun helmets in Venice! They might have been investigating/negotiating some mundane logistical matter such as the provision of forage or transport animals and my feeling is that this dates to sometime between late 1882 and late 1884 when General Earle went " Up the Nile. "

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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby valdinocis » 14 Oct 2016 22:09

Hi Sarah! Thank you very much for the link! Unfortunately I can’t find the note because Google doesn’t let me open the book or make a research in it. :(


Mark A. Reid wrote:Yes, I think Frogsmile makes a valid point, this is almost certainly a military mission of some sort; a general officer to return the toasts at dinner, two colonels to draft the actual documents and a junior officer to look after the luggage! The order of dress is most interesting, the headress reflecting their Mediterranean status, although depending on the season they may well have been brushing snow off their sun helmets in Venice! They might have been investigating/negotiating some mundane logistical matter such as the provision of forage or transport animals and my feeling is that this dates to sometime between late 1882 and late 1884 when General Earle went " Up the Nile. "

Cheers,

Mark


Today I found something interesting on a newspaper called “Gazzetta Ufficiale del Regno d’Italia” dated July 1882. At page 8 I found that Sir Edward Malet (Consul-General in Egypt) landed at Brindisi on 30 June and later went to Venice. Could it be related with these officers? Maybe they went with him.
Here the link to the newspaper:
http://augusto.agid.gov.it/#giorno=1&mese=7&anno=1882

Regards,

Sonny
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby Frogsmile » 15 Oct 2016 11:08

BingandNelsonFan wrote:I meant to post that link and totally forgot! :) Here is is, and you'll see the note about Sanguinetti on the bottom of page 296.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fhMQAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22Ippolito+Sanguinetti%22&q=Sanguinetti#v=onepage&q=Sanguinetti&f=false

Frogsmile wrote:One aspect that seems worth pursuing is what possible role, what seems to be a formal military mission (given the uniforms) by the British to Italy, might have had in connection with Egypt. I imagine that such a mission, if that is what it is, would be well recorded in the British press. Britain surely did not need advice about Egypt at that time and given the involvement of Italy mentioned by Mark, nor it seems did they. So why Egypt?


That's a good point, so I will see about having a look through the newspapers and see if anything turns up. Are we thinking that this event (whatever type of event caused this group to get together, that is) took place around 1882?

Sarah


Sarah, if Sonny cannot open a readable link, would it be possible for you to copy and paste some of the original text to him, or even the opening paragraph, as that would give a clue to its significance, or not.

I agree with Mark that any mention in the British press is likely to be between 1882 and 1884.
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 15 Oct 2016 13:25

Absolutely! I haven't been on my computer since yesterday morning, but I will put the whole thing on here today. :) Will be back shortly . . .

Sarah
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 15 Oct 2016 14:04

Hi, again!

I've taken a screen cap of the page from "Nuova Antologia". It is attached to this entry. If you need to see it larger, let me know, and I can send it in a PM, as this is as large as I can post here on the forum. Also, if you need any other pages of the book, let me know. Am hoping to have a look through some British Newspapers this afternoon to see about any reports that may reference this event.

Sarah
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Nuova Antologia Vol 181 page 296.JPG
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby valdinocis » 15 Oct 2016 16:07

Hi!
Thanks for the screen cap! It talks about the Battle of Custoza, which took place on 24 June 1866 (Third Italian War of Independence). I think are mentioned two different Sanguinetti in that page:
the first is “Tenente Generale(Lieutenant General) Ippolito Sanguinetti” and the second is “Luogotenente (Lieutenant) Sanguinetti”. It’s impossible that Ippolito was a Major in1882. Unfortunately the name of the second Sanguinetti isn’t written on the page.
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby valdinocis » 15 Oct 2016 16:10

I’ve just found something interesting. A Lieutenant called Giovanni Sanguinetti (born in 1865) was killed in the Battle of Coatit (Eritrea) on January 1895 and awarded the Gold Medal of Military Valour. Unfortunately he isn’t the Sanguinetti we are looking for!
Moreover, I found this record on a genealogy site
“Sanguinetti Ippolito Severino (Cairo Montenotte, 13.8.1840 - Sanremo, 21.5.1921), colonnello (Colonel) di stato maggiore, tenente generale (Lt. General)”. I don’t think he is the same Officer who fought in the Battle of Custoza.
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 15 Oct 2016 16:34

valdinocis wrote:Hi!
Thanks for the screen cap! It talks about the Battle of Custoza, which took place on 24 June 1866 (Third Italian War of Independence). I think are mentioned two different Sanguinetti in that page:
the first is “Tenente Generale(Lieutenant General) Ippolito Sanguinetti” and the second is “Luogotenente (Lieutenant) Sanguinetti”. It’s impossible that Ippolito was a Major in1882. Unfortunately the name of the second Sanguinetti isn’t written on the page.


Glad you were able to read it. Would it help you to see any other pages from the same book? I will go through some more results with the info that you listed, too, and see what turns up. What country are you in? I'm in the USA, which might be why some results can come up for me that others don't see. Apparently, depending on the country that you're in, you'll get totally different results.

I've got access to a lot of British Newspapers, so it helps to have the different words and names to look for!
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby valdinocis » 16 Oct 2016 11:08

Hi!
I’m writing from Italy. Probably in my country that book is not available as e-book. We can try to search for other Sanguinetti in the book if it is ok for you :) Maybe it talks also about other campaigns and not only about the Wars of Independence. However, I think that we could find the answer only in the newspapers. In Italy we haven’t a lot of digitalized newspapers and often you have to pay for consulting them.
I’m still searching on the “Gazzetta Ufficiale del Regno d’Italia” (the official journal of record of the Kingdom of Italy) but I haven’t found nothing interesting so far. :(

Sonny
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 16 Oct 2016 14:40

valdinocis wrote:Hi!
I’m writing from Italy. Probably in my country that book is not available as e-book. We can try to search for other Sanguinetti in the book if it is ok for you :) Maybe it talks also about other campaigns and not only about the Wars of Independence. However, I think that we could find the answer only in the newspapers. In Italy we haven’t a lot of digitalized newspapers and often you have to pay for consulting them.
I’m still searching on the “Gazzetta Ufficiale del Regno d’Italia” (the official journal of record of the Kingdom of Italy) but I haven’t found nothing interesting so far. :(

Sonny


Hi, again!

I've just sent you a PM with a link to a larger file, but here are some more screen-caps of Google Books results (in Italian) that I can see. I'm going to post one on this entry and then two more to follow, as they are all pictures. If one is of particular interest, or you'd like me to search for another phrase or anything, just let me know.

I have access to a lot of British and American newspapers (you also have to pay over here, usually, too), so I'm going to try and find something relevant there. So far, though, I haven't found more . . . but it takes a bit of creative searching. :)

Here's the first result. This comes from an 1891 publication with a very long title. To see the whole title, just look at the title of image down there.

Two more coming!
Sarah
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Compendio delle variate vicende occorse a Leone Paladini dalla sua gioventù alla vecchiaia confermate da documenti autentici e da autorevoli testimonianze 1891, page 59.JPG
Compendio delle variate vicende occorse a Leone Paladini dalla sua gioventù alla vecchiaia confermate da documenti autentici e da autorevoli testimonianze 1891, page 59.JPG (50.87 KiB) Viewed 128 times
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 16 Oct 2016 14:43

Second result . . .
This comes from "Il Generale Giuseppe Govone: Frammenti di Memorie" by Uberto Govone. It was published in 1902.
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Il Generale Giuseppe Govone Frammenti di Memorie by Uberto Govone 1902, page 232.JPG
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 16 Oct 2016 14:45

Third result . . .
This one is from "Storia Della Croce Rossa in Piemonte Dalla Nascita al 1914". This was published in 2015.
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Storia Della Croce Rossa in Piemonte Dalla Nascita al 1914 2015, page 235.JPG
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby valdinocis » 18 Oct 2016 22:43

Hi!
Thanks for the documents! I think that the Sanguinetti, which I found on that genealogic site, is the same Sanguinetti who appears in the three attachments. His age seems to be right: Lieutenant at 26 (during the Battle of Custoza of 1866), Lt. Colonel at 45 (1885), Lt. General at 62 (1902) and at 72 (1912). Between 1882 and 1885 he could be a Major.
I don’t understand why there are so few information about him on the internet even if he was quite an important person.
In my free time I will continue to search about clues on newspapers but nothing interesting appeared so far! :(
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Re: British officers in Italy (Major General William Earle?)

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 24 Oct 2016 17:38

Just ran across this, and it seems that General Earle's medals were sold last year! It also supplies a pretty nice career biography for the General, too.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/dixnoonanwebb/catalogue-id-dix-no10000/lot-505ffc3f-75fa-40c8-9bd1-a43600ddf6bc
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