Army Surgeons

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Army Surgeons

Postby researchingreg » 08 May 2015 21:17

When did surgeons become officers in the Army?
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Maureene » 09 May 2015 03:04

See the book available online at Archive.org

Roll of commisssioned officers in the Medical service of the British army, who served on full pay within the period between the accession of George II and the formation of the Royal army medical corps, 20 June 1727 to 23 June 1898, with an introduction showing the historical evolution of the corps by Colonel William Johnston, published 1917.
https://archive.org/details/rollofcommisssio00johnuoft

The preface advises that Army Medical Officers existed from 1660 when the Standing Army was formed, and even before that when armies took to the field.

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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 09 May 2015 07:08

This doesn't answer your question ..... but I've been waiting for an opportunity to post details!

Bonnici, W, (Major, RAMC), John Bathurst Thomson MD 1813 – 1850: An Insight into the Times of a Regimental Medical Officer, J R Army Med Corps, 1992, 138, pp 50 – 53.
http://www.maltaramc.com/articles/contents/jbt.pdf
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Frogsmile » 09 May 2015 09:53

Very interesting links, Maureen and Peter, thank you for posting them.

Although having special, medical 'staff' commissions for many years, the army medical officers did not have conventional 'military' commissions with all the same status and benefits of the other officers of the Army until a combined, Royal Army Medical Corps was formed, in 1898. This change in status had had to be campaigned for over the preceding two decades.

The first large scale test under the new organisation was the 2nd Anglo/Boer War.
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby researchingreg » 09 May 2015 17:00

Thanks for the replies. In the Navy things seem to be different. I thought the Army was simiar. Following is an extract from Wikipedia:
"....During the 18th century, naval surgeons were warrant-officers and held warrants, rather than commissions as officers. The Order in Council of 1805 permitted medical officers in the navy “to wear a distinguishing uniform and to have a similar rank with the officers of the same class in Your Majesty’s land forces”. Senior naval surgeons thereby became considered as officers of wardroom rank. However, the lot of assistant surgeons (the majority of the naval surgeons) remained a miserable one, until the Crimean War exposed once and for all the need for radical reform in the medical armed forces Many, including the vociferous Wakley in The Lancet, had championed the cause to improve the status, pay and rank of assistant surgeons in the first half of the 19th century. As part of the naval reforms carried out in the decade following the Crimean War, many if not all, of the assistant surgeons’ grievances were finally met. The Medical Act of 1858 established a national register of qualified practitioners. The Crimean War had also exposed the need for further training of army and navy surgeons.
Florence Nightingale set out the need for an Army Medical School in her influential book Notes on matters affecting the Health, Efficiency and Hospital Administration of the British Army (1858). A school was opened at Fort Pitt, Chatham in 1860, to which naval surgeons were first sent in 1871. The school moved to Netley Hospital in Hampshire where there was a Professor of Naval Hygiene, until in 1881 a Naval Medical School was established at Haslar......"
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Frogsmile » 09 May 2015 21:02

You will find equivalent Wikipedia details for the Army under 'Royal Army Medical Corps'.
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 06 Jun 2015 06:52

FWThey’reW

….. all relate to India.

A compilation of all the ... orders ... 1750 to ... 1801 ... of the Bombay army, by E. Moor
Edward Moor, 1801
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Qp ... milarbooks

Code of Regulations for the Medical Department of the Presidency of Fort St. George
Madras (India : Presidency). Medical Department , printed at Asylum Press, 1833
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=4ZleAAAAcAAJ&

James Hutchinson (F.R.C.S.), Code of Regulations for the Medical Department of the Bengal
G.H. Huttmann, 1838
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=NpdeAAAAcAAJ&

Code of Regulations .., Bombay (Presidency). Medical Department, printed at Bombay Education Society's Press, 1849
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=appeAAAAcAAJ&

William Robert Cornish, A code of medical and sanitary regulations for the guidance of medical officers serving in the Madras presidency, Volume 1, H. Morgan, at the Government Press, 1870
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=WhUDAAAAQAAJ&
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Maureene » 08 Jun 2015 00:58

Thanks for these links Peter. Two of them were new to me.

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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 16 Sep 2016 09:41

1830 and 1831:

i) The Medical Department of the Army, Past and Present,

The United Service Magazine, Part 1, 1831, pp 247 – 251, https://books.google.com.au/books?id=-kzzAAAAMAAJ

ii) being: “remarks ….. upon (a letter:) the administration of the The Medical Department of the Army in June last”.

iii) Medical Department

….. being correspondence regarding “competent and willing officers” on half pay versus “younger, less experienced” officers on full pay.

(ibid, p 540)

1804 – 1814:

iv) Claims of Medical Officers by the King’s Warrant of 1804 – 1814

(ibid, pp 540 – 542)

v) which references “the insertion in your Journal of the late Warrants of June 1830
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 05 Oct 2016 03:16

Gore, Albert Augustus (Surgeon Major), The story of our services under the Crown; a historical sketch of the Army Medical Staff, 1879.
https://archive.org/details/storyourservice00goregoog

Great Britain. War Office, Regulations for Army medical services, Part I, 1890.
https://archive.org/details/regulationsforar01grea

Great Britain; War Office, Regulations for Army Medical Services, Volume 2, No Date.
https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/books ... _10142768;
https://evocab.github.io/33-mr-kellen-b ... g3nr5c.pdf

Great Britain. War Office, Regulations for Army medical services, 1894.
https://archive.org/details/b20408262

George Evatt, Royal Navy And Army Medical Services,
“A special Army Order was issued on March 4th notifying certain changes in organisation to give effect to the Army Corps Scheme”.
The British Medical Journal, Vol. 1, No. 2149, Mar. 8, 1902, pp. 624-626.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20271525?s ... b_contents.

Royal Navy And Army Medical Services,
“The following new regulations for admission to the RAMC, made in accordance with the provisions of the Royal Warrant of March 24th 1902, will be promulgated with Army Orders dated May 1st, 1902”.
The British Medical Journal , Vol. 1, No. 2158, May 10, 1902, pp. 1180-1184,
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20272163?s ... b_contents
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 07 Oct 2016 05:00

Ancestry publishes Wellcome Library medical records

Historic records of doctors, dentists, midwives and medical students held by London's Wellcome Library can now be searched on Ancestry.

The London-based archive has released six unique datasets via Ancestry, together comprising over 1.4 million records relating to medical students and professionals across Britain and the Commonwealth.

The largest of the datasets (http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db ... b+Property) comprises over 730,000 records gleaned from old medical directories, listing retired and practising doctors in 1845-1942.

Fully searchable, the entries can provide a doctor’s residential address, as well as details of their qualifications and employment history.

Other additions to Ancestry include registers of medical and dental students (1882-1937) (http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db ... b+Property), dentists (1879-1942) (http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db ... b+Property), physiotherapists (1895-1980) (http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db ... b+Property) and midwives (1909-1959) (http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db ... b+Property), plus the Roll of the Indian Medical Service (1615-1930) (http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db ... b+Property), listing the names of 8,000 medical professionals who worked within the former British Raj.

This is not the first time that the Wellcome Library has released historic records online. In 2013 the institution launched a free resource named London’s Pulse (http://wellcomelibrary.org/moh/), featuring reports written by Medical Officers of Health in the capital between 1848 and 1972.

The Wellcome Library has also been digitising mental health records held by partner archives across the UK. These are gradually being made available free of charge here, http://wellcomelibrary.org/collections/ ... healthcare.

(jonbauckham, Who Do You Think You Are? Magazine, 6 October 2016)
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Maureene » 07 Oct 2016 23:25

As a small addition to Peter's post above, someone with a subscription to Ancestry (I don't) has clarified that the data relating to the Ancestry database "Roll of the Indian Medical Service (1615-1930)" consists of index records and page images from the book of the same name by D.G. Crawford published in 1930.

Regarding Peter's post of 5 October, another edition on Archive.org is
https://archive.org/details/regulationsforar02grea
Regulations for Army medical services Part II, 1890
which may possibly be the same as the undated link Peter quotes, but the forgotten books link did not work for me.

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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 13 Oct 2016 07:25

Royal Army Medical Corps training, 1911
https://archive.org/details/royalarmymedical00greauoft
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 21 Oct 2016 12:45

“Army Medical Officers

“The following Warrant has just been issued, revising, in a most important point, the position and scale of the Medical Officers of the Army, viz. :-

“……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….................................. “

The United Service Magazine, 1858, Part 3; Volume 88, Naval and Military Intelligence, London, Hurst & Blackett, pp 434 - 437.
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=-94RAAAAYAAJ&pg
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Re: Army Surgeons

Postby Peter » 26 Oct 2016 13:35

1856

Army Medical Department

The following circular from the Director General has been sent to a certain number of medical men, with a request that they will answer the several questions therein contained :-

The United Service Magazine, 1856, V 82 (Sept.-Dec).
pp 152 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=162 – 153


The Army Medical Department

The following is the Report of the Select Committee appointed on the Medical Department of the Army :-

The United Service Magazine, 1856, V 82 (Sept.-Dec).
p 154 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=164 – 155

1857.

General Order. May 8.

Royal Commission – Medical Department of the Army

The Queen has been pleased to issue a Commission ….. to inquire into the organisation, government and direction of the Medical Department of the Army …..

The United Service Magazine, 1857, V 84 (May-Aug)
p 290 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=304 - 292


Article and letter discussing the Report of the Select Committee ….. :

The Reorganisation of The Army Medical Department

The United Service Magazine, 1857, V 84 (May-Aug).
pp 323 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=337 – 340
pp 595 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=609 - 596


“Army Hospital Corps – A warrant has been issued directing the formation of a corps under this denomination, to supplant, we suppose, the Medical Staff Corps.”

The United Service Magazine, 1857, V 85 (Sept.-Dec)
p 291 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=305

1858.

Army Medical Officers’ Pay

The United Service Magazine, 1858, V 87 (May-Aug)
, p 611 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=625


Army Medical Officers

The following Warrant has just been issued, revising, in a most important point, the position and scale of pay of the Medical Officers of the Army, viz : -

The United Service Magazine, 1858, V 88 (Sept.-Dec)
pp 434 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=446 - 437

1859.

Organization of the Practical Army Medical School.

The United Service Magazine, 1859, V91 (Sept.-Dec)
pp 611 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=627 - 612


Rules for the Examination of Assistant Surgeons Previous to Promotion

The United Service Magazine, 1859, V91 (Sept.-Dec)
pp 612 / https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=628 – 613


The United Service Magazine
1860 – 1875 Full Search (Note: All the above identified within “Naval and Military Intelligence”)
1876 – 1890 Limited Search
Hathi Trust Digital Library
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000501518
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