ID for 3 Swords, Please?

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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 24 Oct 2016 17:28

Will Mathieson wrote:The 1845 with brass scabbard is for majors and above in infantry regiments only, not guard regiments.
The french sword is not an officers sword.
Sorry but you have a few strike outs but some very nice swords.


Hi, again! I'll have to do some looking into the idea of the French Sword. I'm thinking it may be something that one of the family just purchased along the way. One of them purchased a whole line of Napoleonic cannons from a French ship. They were purchased at a sale where all of the proceeds benefited the wounded sailors of the Napoleonic War. Maybe the sword was collected, too.

That makes sense about the Coldstream Guards and Life Guards swords. From other things that I've read here, I thought there would be something special. How long would the 1845 with brass scabbard sword have been in use? That might give me a way to narrow down the possibilities.

Thanks!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 24 Oct 2016 17:49

This brass hilted sword could have lasted until 1894 because in 1895 a steel hilt became the regulation. At this time serving officers would have had to re hilt their swords if continuing in the service.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 24 Oct 2016 18:01

Thanks! I will go through the family tree and try to find someone between 1845-1894 who would fit that sword. :)

Will Mathieson wrote:Hi Sarah only the middle sword has a lion head pommel suggesting naval and the scabbards opposing rings also suggest naval.
The brass infantry field officers scabbard is a 1822/45 pattern for Majors and above. The foremost is a 1822/45p, possibly an 1822p infantry officers with pipe backed blade. I'd love to see the blades as the swords with their sword knots look to be in fine shape.


Another quick question: Any idea on the Navy blade (this is from the first photo) and when it might be from?

I'll see about getting the blade photos. The same gentleman is hoping to go back for some more photos in two or three weeks, so I'll put these on his list.

Thanks!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 24 Oct 2016 18:34

I can't tell very much from the photo just what exactly the naval sword is, only the lion head pommel suggests naval.
To add the opposing scabbard rings and white grip. The shield on the scabbard has the makers details, appears to be a Wilkinson but I'm not 100% positive.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 24 Oct 2016 20:06

Will Mathieson wrote:I can't tell very much from the photo just what exactly the naval sword is, only the lion head pommel suggests naval.
To add the opposing scabbard rings and white grip. The shield on the scabbard has the makers details, appears to be a Wilkinson but I'm not 100% positive.


Okay. I'll see about getting some more photos of these and be sure to post them.

I went through the family pictures (to see if there are any that actually show a sword), and I have only found one so far. This shows one of the gents as a Lieutenant (soon to be promoted to Captain) in the Grenadier Guards in 1860. This would be a special sword, though, right?

Thanks!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 24 Oct 2016 21:45

Coldstream Guards sword circ 1855. Has a special order blade as many of the guards officers wanted something more substantial for penetrating heavy uniforms. The hilt had to be standard but the blade is unseen unless withdrawn.
A Grenadier Guards sword shown here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... er-s-Sword
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 24 Oct 2016 22:09

Will Mathieson wrote:Coldstream Guards sword circ 1855. Has a special order blade as many of the guards officers wanted something more substantial for penetrating heavy uniforms. The hilt had to be standard but the blade is unseen unless withdrawn.
A Grenadier Guards sword shown here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... er-s-Sword


Most interesting! I suppose that would have been a consideration --- especially with the thick uniforms of the Russians.

It's really odd that none of the three types of Guards swords have turned up. I'll definitely look into this and post further pictures once I've got them. I'm also going to work really hard at trying to figure out why there are so many Infantry Officer's swords . . . who did they belong to, I wonder?

Thanks for your help and letting me ask so many questions!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 24 Oct 2016 23:34

With any luck the blades may be etched with the owners initials, family crest, regiment or all three.
Post 1853 Wilkinsons have a blade proof page that usually has a buyers name written on them.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 26 Oct 2016 13:24

Will Mathieson wrote:With any luck the blades may be etched with the owners initials, family crest, regiment or all three.
Post 1853 Wilkinsons have a blade proof page that usually has a buyers name written on them.


Right! I'll get back with photos of the blades just as soon as possible. :) Let's hope that they offer some more info!

Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 28 Nov 2016 13:50

Hi, again!

Am still working on this collection of family swords. Two more have turned up in the house, and I am attaching preliminary photos. I've got a gentleman going into the house in the next week or two to take some large and close photos of all.

However, I'd be interested in anyone's opinion about what type of swords these two may be. Five photos on this post show one of them. I'll post photos of the second on another post.

Thanks!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 28 Nov 2016 13:57

Here are photos of the second sword. It looks totally different and rather squarish!

Also, I have found one more picture of a family member with a sword. Perhaps this is one of the swords found so far? This picture shows him in June 1889 as an officer of the "Charterhouse Rifle Volunteer Corps". It's also marked "West Surrey Militia Cadet Corps".

Thanks!
Sarah
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Monty at Charterhouse.JPG
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 28 Nov 2016 13:59

This is a 1st Lifeguards officers sword. With a makers name on the blade we could narrow down the date range but my guess is 1860's to 1880's.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 28 Nov 2016 14:01

Seems my post pervious didn't make it under the correct post. This sword at the bottom is a 1796 officers light cavalry sword.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 28 Nov 2016 14:38

Will Mathieson wrote:This is a 1st Lifeguards officers sword. With a makers name on the blade we could narrow down the date range but my guess is 1860's to 1880's.


Yay! Yay! Wow! Thanks so much for looking at it. This is one of two that I was really hoping would turn up. :) Only one family member was in the 1st Life Guards. He went in in December 1846 and retired as Captain in 1852. Apparently, his helmet and breastplate are still in the house. Hoping to get photos of those, too!

Will Mathieson wrote:Seems my post pervious didn't make it under the correct post. This sword at the bottom is a 1796 officers light cavalry sword.


This is really neat! There are two brothers who could belong to this one. The oldest became a Major in the Cornwall Fencibles in April 1795. He was an officer there until his death in 1797.

The younger brother became an Ensign in the Royal Cornwall Militia in 1792 and stayed in there, rising to the rank of Colonel in 1807.

I would lean to thinking that the sword belonged to the younger one, since he was in longer. What do you think? Does one of those seem more likely for this type of sword?

Thanks so much!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 29 Nov 2016 02:55

Hi Sarah it would be helpful to have photos of the blades since they may be decorated and possibly with owners initials and/or family crest.
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