ID for 3 Swords, Please?

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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 15 Feb 2017 22:55

Will Mathieson wrote:SWORD #7
Two photos of this one:
Sword and Scabbard (full length)
http://www.sarahbethonline.com/photos/forumpics/pe%20swords%20(13).jpg

An officers mameluke sword to the 60th. I can't tell from the photo but if the scabbard is plated and not brass it is post 1900.

The scabbard is plated, so it must be post 1900. The 60th . . . so, I'm looking for someone who served with the 60th? I'll have to dig into that one. Would this have been a dress sword?

Yes a dress sword though some were used in earlier times.


Just to clarify, the "60" on the blade refers to a Regiment?
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 15 Feb 2017 22:56

And one more question . . .
:)

Sword #2 appears to have a Naval anchor design on it, as well as a lion head. Is it Navy?

Thanks!
Sarah
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 15 Feb 2017 23:22

Coldstream Guards had their own pattern of sword with their crest in the steel guard and not the VR. I suppose he could use a 1845p in a pinch. Some did use family swords but had them rehilted if required to the pattern their regiment used.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 15 Feb 2017 23:51

Will Mathieson wrote:Coldstream Guards had their own pattern of sword with their crest in the steel guard and not the VR. I suppose he could use a 1845p in a pinch. Some did use family swords but had them rehilted if required to the pattern their regiment used.


Okay. That makes sense. Rehilting sounds neat! When he asks for a sword in his letter, though, he is still in school and not in the Guards yet. Would his parents have bought him the 1845p variety at that time? And then replaced it with a Coldstream sword once he had a commission?

It is his older brother who was in the Life Guards (and whose sword is in this lot). A younger brother was in the Grenadier Guards, but neither the Coldstream or Grenadier Guards swords have turned up.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 15 Feb 2017 23:59

The "60" should refer to the regimental number, the #2 sword is a naval sword post 1845, warrant officers, not officer due tothe dark grip, officers had white grips. 1845 because the blade type was changed to a fullered blade and previous to 1845 officers blades were pipe backed.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 16 Feb 2017 02:49

BingandNelsonFan wrote:
Will Mathieson wrote:Coldstream Guards had their own pattern of sword with their crest in the steel guard and not the VR. I suppose he could use a 1845p in a pinch. Some did use family swords but had them rehilted if required to the pattern their regiment used.


Okay. That makes sense. Rehilting sounds neat! When he asks for a sword in his letter, though, he is still in school and not in the Guards yet. Would his parents have bought him the 1845p variety at that time? And then replaced it with a Coldstream sword once he had a commission?

It is his older brother who was in the Life Guards (and whose sword is in this lot). A younger brother was in the Grenadier Guards, but neither the Coldstream or Grenadier Guards swords have turned up.


I would not think anyone would purchase an 1845p infantry sword without knowing what regiment he was going into. Most likely he knew which regiment in advance.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 16 Feb 2017 15:23

Will Mathieson wrote:The "60" should refer to the regimental number, the #2 sword is a naval sword post 1845, warrant officers, not officer due tothe dark grip, officers had white grips. 1845 because the blade type was changed to a fullered blade and previous to 1845 officers blades were pipe backed.


Thanks! Then I know exactly whose sword this was . . . and it's really cool! :)
Would this type of Navy sword have been the standard still in the 1860s or early '70s?
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 16 Feb 2017 15:28

All of these swords are still in the family house in England, so I have someone who has been going through and taking these photos for me. Here is one photo (large version can be seen at the link below) that shows yet a few more swords still displayed high up on a wall. Any first impressions of what these might be?

http://www.sarahbethonline.com/photos/forumpics/pe%20swords%20(23).jpg
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 16 Feb 2017 16:03

BingandNelsonFan wrote:
Will Mathieson wrote:The "60" should refer to the regimental number, the #2 sword is a naval sword post 1845, warrant officers, not officer due tothe dark grip, officers had white grips. 1845 because the blade type was changed to a fullered blade and previous to 1845 officers blades were pipe backed.


Thanks! Then I know exactly whose sword this was . . . and it's really cool! :)
Would this type of Navy sword have been the standard still in the 1860s or early '70s?


The British naval sword has stayed the same up to this day.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 16 Feb 2017 16:05

BingandNelsonFan wrote:All of these swords are still in the family house in England, so I have someone who has been going through and taking these photos for me. Here is one photo (large version can be seen at the link below) that shows yet a few more swords still displayed high up on a wall. Any first impressions of what these might be?

http://www.sarahbethonline.com/photos/forumpics/pe%20swords%20(23).jpg


The red shield has earlier swords 1796 pattern possibly and an 1803p. Better photos would help.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 17 Feb 2017 00:44

Thanks! I have a picture of a different family member who was in the Navy, and the photo shows him quite young (1860s) in uniform with his sword, so it would be like this one. Neat!

I'll see what I can do about the other swords. I'll ask the gentlemen to see if they can photograph them any closer. :)
Thanks!
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 11 Oct 2017 22:22

Hi, again!

I got some new photos of some of the swords today. And it really looks like one of them is going to be the Coldstream Guards sword that I'm so hoping will turn up!! However, I'm really hoping for some answers from someone who knows about this.
These are more photos of Sword #4 (as numbered in the original posts). There is a better photo of the hilt, and then two photos of the engraving on the blade. I am thinking that the Coldstream badge is in the engraving?? The prospect is so exciting that I'm really hoping for an answer. Thank you so much! More photos of some of the others coming soon, but I thought I'd post this one right away!

Image
CLICK FOR HIGH-RES VERSION OF ABOVE PHOTO:
http://sarahbethonline.com/photos/forumpics/pe%20swords%20(24).jpg

Image
CLICK FOR HIGH-RES VERSION OF ABOVE PHOTO:
http://sarahbethonline.com/photos/forumpics/pe%20swords%20(25).jpg

Image
CLICK FOR HIGH-RES VERSION OF ABOVE PHOTO:
http://sarahbethonline.com/photos/forumpics/pe%20swords%20(26).jpg
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby Will Mathieson » 12 Oct 2017 00:07

Sarah you are correct, there is the Coldstream Guard crest in the etching on the blade. This would be a pre 1854 sword Guards sword when they used the infantry pattern with brass hilt.In 1854 the Guards had steel hilts with their respective crest on the guard.
A very good sword with provenance. Good sleuthing.
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Re: ID for 3 Swords, Please?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 12 Oct 2017 15:52

Thank you so much! So exciting!
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