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Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 14:06
by Owen
Dear All,

I wonder if anyone can help identify this sword belt. It came attached to a 1796 Pattern Light Cavalry sabre and looks as though it has been attached for a long time. I am sure it is a Victorian sword belt and I am guessing it was attached to the sword by a previous collector/owner, at some point.

First thing to say is that I really don't know anything about swords or sword belts. I collect medals and ephemera to the Napoleonic Wars/Waterloo period and this sword is part of that collection (rather than a sword collection).

The belt has a double snake head clasp and is marked wth hand written numbers, name (I think it's a name) and also printed numbers. Please see pictures...I would be grateful for any thoughts you have. For completeness, the sword Langet and scabbard are marked with an engraved "LS over 75" and the sword is made and marked by Durs Egg. Obviously, I'm not asking about the sword here as it's out of the period, Just the sword belt. Any help, thoughts, comments etc on the belt, the numbers and the name very gratefully received.

Owen


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Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 14:10
by Owen
Just to add a picture of the clasp. Thanks, Owen

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Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 15:14
by AlexReece
Hello Owen

Looks to be 1885 Pattern Mk 2

The Mk 2 dates from 1888 described Loc 5377

The original Pattern Mk1 has a extra brass fitting for Sabretache Loc 4853

ink marking 3 D G ? 3rd Dragon Guards ?

Strange that the chape has been cut ?

Regards Alex

Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 15:27
by AlexReece
This shows the original 1885 MK1 Pattern

Note the extra square loop on the right next to the sword sling

The Mk 2 did not have this loop ( Your Belt )

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Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 15:49
by AlexReece
And just for good measure....

The MK2 with the absent square loop, notice the same pattern stitching as your sword belt Owen

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alex

Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 18:53
by Frogsmile
Brilliant stuff, Alex. Agree with your ID and unit of 3rd DG too. Equipment belts were not personal issue items and so they were required to be marked only with the unit and a serial number for accounting purposes.

Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 19:15
by AlexReece
Frogsmile wrote:Brilliant stuff, Alex. Agree with your ID and unit of 3rd DG too. Equipment belts were not personal issue items and so they were required to be marked only with the unit and a serial number for accounting purposes.



Thank you Frogsmile

Ps did you see the excellent photos of the Leicester R V that t100 posted on the 1871 valise belt ?

Alex

Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 20:01
by Owen
Dear Alex and Frogsmile,

That's absolutely brilliant, thank you both so much for taking the time and interest to answer so fully.

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, when you say chapel has been cut, I guess you mean that part where 433 was stamped?

In your debt,

Owen

Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 20:09
by AlexReece
Owen wrote:Dear Alex and Frogsmile,

That's absolutely brilliant, thank you both so much for taking the time and interest to answer so fully.

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, I guess the marking should/did read 3 DG and the 433 is the serial number?

And, when you say that the chape has been cut - I guess you mean that part where 433 was stamped?

In your debt,

Owen


At second look Owen it now looks 32 C or 0, 433 serial or unit.

So not 3rd Dragons Guards, not sure how I seen that but looks definitely 3 2 C or 0 ?

Yes strange cut shape to the chape as inked 433 is stamped.

Your Welcome Owen

Re: Victorian sword belt on 1796 LC Sabre?

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017 22:55
by Owen
Thanks Alex, that's much appreciated. This sword has presented me with one puzzle already - langet markings of "LS over 75" - now double the puzzle with what 32 C or G could represent?

But, with you having confirmed the later Victorian period of the belt, I feel comfortable removing it to display the sword. With the sword and belt as entirely separate entities, I can deal with them separately. If that makes sense.

Thanks again,

Owen