Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

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Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby aramis » 02 Sep 2017 18:29

Hi all

I am having difficulty establishing the colour of the helmet plume worn by musicians of the 3rd Dragoon Guards. Photographs of the drum horse from 1897 and later show a red and black plume, like the rest of the regiment. The Uniformology website says the plume was white before 1897 and red and black afterwards but the table published in Money-Barnes's book in 1950 says it was red and white in 1914. Does anyone have access to contemporary photos that can clarify this situation?

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Re: Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby crimea1854 » 02 Sep 2017 22:08

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Re: Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby aramis » 03 Sep 2017 10:23

Thanks for the auction link Martin. As you say, if it is an original plume! Collectors have been notorious for adding incorrect plumes to helmets. Some photographic evidence could resolve the situation.

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Re: Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby AlexReece » 03 Sep 2017 10:41

Hello Aramis

You may have seen this image ?

Circa 1890 and when zoomed in the plume is red & black ( National Army Museum UK )

3DG 1890.jpg
3DG 1890.jpg (41.17 KiB) Viewed 93 times


http://prints.national-army-museum.ac.u ... rds-1890-c



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Re: Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby Frogsmile » 03 Sep 2017 14:03

I have checked my references and they all state red and black, as at 2nd Anglo/Boer War and WW1.
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Re: Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby aramis » 04 Sep 2017 19:43

I know that the drum horse photos from about 1897 show black over red plumes but I have yet to see any evidence that this applied to the rest of the band and, except for the helmet that came up for sale recently, I have seen no evidence that bandsmen had white plumes before c1897. I have a fairly comprehensive collection of books and material on British uniforms gathered over some 45 years of collecting but there is nothing on the band's uniforms with the exception of the drum horse from the late 1890s, Money-Barnes's reference to white over red plumes in 1914 and an article by Doug Hagger which says bandsmen had black over red plumes in about 1912 (Bruce of Uniformology kindly pointed out the latter). I am astonished that such a lack of basic information exists for a British cavalry regiment. Surely there are contemporary photos of the band that could resolve the problem.

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Re: Musicians' plumes, 3rd Dragoon Guards

Postby Frogsmile » 04 Sep 2017 21:25

aramis wrote:I know that the drum horse photos from about 1897 show black over red plumes but I have yet to see any evidence that this applied to the rest of the band and, except for the helmet that came up for sale recently, I have seen no evidence that bandsmen had white plumes before c1897. I have a fairly comprehensive collection of books and material on British uniforms gathered over some 45 years of collecting but there is nothing on the band's uniforms with the exception of the drum horse from the late 1890s, Money-Barnes's reference to white over red plumes in 1914 and an article by Doug Hagger which says bandsmen had black over red plumes in about 1912 (Bruce of Uniformology kindly pointed out the latter). I am astonished that such a lack of basic information exists for a British cavalry regiment. Surely there are contemporary photos of the band that could resolve the problem.

Aramis


I am sure that there will be photos in existence, but few if any seem to be in the public domain. Bands are not that well covered other than in specialised websites, perhaps because they were not fighting troops. The cavalry regiments also suffered from several phases of merger/amalgamation, commencing in 1922. Since then the museum collections have also been disrupted on several occasions with buildings closed and collections merged or dispersed. Your best bet is probably the museum of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards and their photographic collection of antecedent regiments (located at Edinburgh castle): https://www.scotsdgmuseum.com
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