Help dating this portrait please

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Help dating this portrait please

Postby ardyer » 17 Aug 2017 20:57

Please can anyone help me date this photograph. I understand he is an officer of KSLI but don't know how to "read" the sleeve insignia.
Is that a leather strap across the chest or a sash and what does it mean? Also if there are any medal buffs, it would be interesting to know more about his career.
https://www.herefordshirehistory.org.uk ... rettyPhoto

When using this link, look below the photo for View larger picture option.
The only context I can offer is that the picture was taken in a studio in Hereford, there is no name available.
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby Frogsmile » 17 Aug 2017 21:47

The leather pouch/cross belt and waist belt indicates categorically that he is a battalion quarter-master. The collar badge makes clear that he is light infantry and dark facings suggest the KSLI. The date is around 1902 and he is a subaltern rank - lieutenant and quartermaster. Quartermasters, unlike Adjutants, were the only regimentally badged battalion staff officers who did not wear the crimson silk sash.
Last edited by Frogsmile on 18 Aug 2017 15:17, edited 2 times in total.
sq
Relic of many a fight and siege and sack, it points a moral and adorns the back.
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby Frogsmile » 17 Aug 2017 22:53

Frogsmile wrote:The leather pouch/cross belt and waist belt indicates categorically that he is a Battalion quarter-master. The collar badge makes clear that he is light infantry and dark facings suggest the KSLI.
sq
Relic of many a fight and siege and sack, it points a moral and adorns the back.
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby Mark A. Reid » 18 Aug 2017 00:58

Hello ardyer;

Until more learned Members reply, I can say that the four medals, reading from Left to Right, are;

Egypt Medal with four clasps
Uknown,
India General Service Medal,1864 with clasp
Khedive's Star

The subject of this image should be fairly easy to identify from the Army Lists but I would suggest that he may have had service in another regiment as the KSLI, as a regiment, did not earn four clasps on the Egypt Medal. As a QM his War Service ahould be listed in the Army List too so I hope you enjoy the research.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby ED, in Los Angeles » 18 Aug 2017 03:38

Her is a dated list of the medals with correction date for India G.S. Medal.

Egypt medal, 1882-1889 with four clasps. Each clasp signifies a battle or campaign. You did not have to see combat, you just had to be in the area of operations.

"unknown medal", probably a long service good conduct medal. Single ribbon color and scroll swivel hanger with no clasp hints to the possibility of this medal. And this guy is old.

India General Services Medal, 1854-1895, OR India Medal 1895-1902. One clasp. If this were a color photo we could determine which medal, as the vertical stripes on the ribbon were identical.

Khedives Star, 1882-1889 awarded by Egypt for service in the Egypt war and campaigns in Sudan. This medal is actually a beautiful Egypt issue solid bronze medal. It is heavy and the hard star points just reek havoc on any British silver medal it is next to. A shining medal destroyer. But it is so pretty.
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby Mark A. Reid » 18 Aug 2017 13:14

1854, of course, not 1864! Thanks for the correction ED, I don't know what my fingers were thinking.

Yes, the second medal does look like an Army LSGC Medal, although if it were, it would be in the wrong order of precedence according to regulations. However, we all know that some individuals exercised a certain degree of flexibility in their dress so perhaps when ardyer discovers the sitter's identity then we will know for sure.

Just a very minor point, the Khedive's Star was awarded 1882-1889 to the British Army, as you wrote, but in fact continued to be issued to the Egyptian Army, including its British Officers and NCO's, until well into the 1890's. In 1893 it was issued, with a clasp, for those who had fought at the Battle of Tokar two years earlier when about 26 British personnel, and 2,000 Egyptian soldiers earned it.

I agree whole heartedly with you that it is an attractive award and it is often seen with a wide variety of other medals, British, Ottoman, French and a few other nationalities too. Although issued with a matte black finish, it was sometimes scrubbed until the underlying metal could be seen, and burnished, to present a shiny appearance. I have an example to an Egyptian soldier where he has had it silvered, no doubt to match his Egypt Medal and, yes, it does look a little odd!

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby ardyer » 18 Aug 2017 14:28

Thank you all so much for your replies. It seems like winning a jackpot when I pose a question. I always get much more than I would have thought possible.
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Re: Help dating this portrait please

Postby ED, in Los Angeles » 19 Aug 2017 01:23

Mark and I had a great discussion on the Khedives Star Medal. This medal was awarded with the silver Egypt medal. When the two medals were worn often by the recipient, the damage to the Egypt medal is quite evident from the star points on the heavy bronze medal. This image on the link is not by any means an isolated case of silver medal pocking by the big bronze star.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0
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