Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

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Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frankjersey » 13 Aug 2017 17:28

I know this may be a bit older than what's usually here. But this seemed too good to be true and I thought I'd post it to the experts.
This is exactly how it read.

This is an original short jacket of naval design. It appears to have been created for a rating from an old officer's frock coat with the addition of a white cape top with anchor imprints and white frogging to the body. The older cut down frock coat has the original button holes now largely defunct in its new guise. I can only hazard a guess at the age but it could be possibly from the Napoleonic/ Nelson era when ratings had no set official uniform. Buttons appear to be bone ones.

That being said. Would anyone venture a purchase on this? Thank you.
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frogsmile » 13 Aug 2017 17:34

No.
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frankjersey » 13 Aug 2017 17:38

hahaha that's all I needed to hear.
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby grumpy » 13 Aug 2017 22:57

Might just be a boat's crew for the Captains cutter/ admiral's barge. Depending on the depth of purse of the incumbent, boats' crews were dressed privately and uinquely. Hence [HMS] Blazer for example.
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Tony Barton » 14 Aug 2017 08:07

H.M.S Pinafore, I rather suspect.
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frogsmile » 14 Aug 2017 09:28

Tony Barton wrote:H.M.S Pinafore, I rather suspect.


Yes, or Pirates of Penzance methinks ;)
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Mark A. Reid » 14 Aug 2017 13:47

Hello Frankjersey;

I must congratulate you on uncovering so many interesting looking garments, and should also praise those other members, particularly Frogsmile, for offering their informed comments. If I might be allowed to offer some more generic advice, and certainly not wanting to cause offence, here are a few gratuitous comments;

1) Trying to verify the identity and age of a garment by showing a few middle-distance photographs is rather like trying to guess which fish might live underwater in a picture of the surface of the ocean. Whilst many superficial observations may be made by matching the general " look " of an item compared to known examples,these observations can only have very limited value.

2) The true age of a garment can only be ascertained by a close analysis of the basic building blocks of a particular item. What are the fabrics used, what is the pattern, what kind of lining and stitiching were used, has it been altered, are the buttons and button holes original? All of these details, and dozens more, must be answered before a true identification can be made. Understandably, this knowledge can't be found in a 100-word, ready-reference page on the Internet, it comes from the collective knowledge and experience of textile experts, conservators and sewing experts and so on.

Obviously, few of us have these qualifications but most large museums retain staff members who do and I would recommend that you try and establish contact with someone in your local community or at one of the larger historical museums. Companies that make high-end re-enactment uniforms, etc. usually hire people who have extensive experience and can tell at a glance whether a garment is a genuine Victorian piece or a more recent theatrical effort, simply by the angle of the arm-hole for example.

3) My apologies if I'm trying to teach you " how to suck eggs " but I would recommend that you make contact with garment experts and try and handle as many examples as possible, if only to learn how they should feel and look. The uniform experts on this Forum have an encyclopaedic knowledge of regimental patterns, etc. and I'm sure that they will continue to offer much gratuitous and informed advice but you can also become a bit of an expert yourself by learning to recognise some basic " building blocks " of clothing.

Again, I have no desire to cause offence but simply wanted to offer some advice that may prove useful if you continue to seek Victorian uniforms.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby grumpy » 14 Aug 2017 16:56

Gratuitous? Really?

Dictionaries give this as the prime meaning:

Done without good reason; uncalled for
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frogsmile » 14 Aug 2017 17:32

I am sure it's just a slip of the tongue, grumpy, heaven knows, we all make them. You're just living up to your name again for mischief's sake ;)
Mark is very erudite, as you know.
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Mark A. Reid » 14 Aug 2017 17:46

My apologies, grumpy, if I misled you but my battered Concise Oxford Dictionary, which has served me well through Staff School, two degrees and a technical college diploma, defines " Gratuitous " as " Got or given free. " There are, of course, other secondary and tertiary meanings but I intended to impart this primary one. I trust this clears up any misunderstanding?

Cheers,

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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frogsmile » 14 Aug 2017 17:57

I can feel some humble pie coming on...... :D
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Mark A. Reid » 14 Aug 2017 18:00

Hello Frogsmile;

I seem to consume large quantities of it on a fairly regular basis, quite often without realising why! Here in Canada we even pour a little maple syrup on it to make it a little more palatable.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: Unknown possible Nelson era jacket

Postby Frogsmile » 14 Aug 2017 18:11

Mark A. Reid wrote:Hello Frogsmile;

I seem to consume large quantities of it on a fairly regular basis, quite often without realising why! Here in Canada we even pour a little maple syrup on it to make it a little more palatable.

Cheers,

Mark

Thankfully it's not me who has to consume the Lion's share. I didn't see anything wrong in the first place (with good reason I am glad to say).
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