CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

For all discussions relating to military uniforms, insignia, equipment and medals of the Victorian period.

CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby Fathertime » 16 Feb 2017 03:02

I would like to get someones opinion on the date of this photo. When I purchased it, I thought it must be from a period before the Childers reforms. When I got a good look at it with the magnifying glass, I could see the "HLI" on the shoulder board, and the distinctive elephant on the plaid broach. My reference says the regiment was in India from 1884 to 1900. It makes a cursory reference to Colombo which would put them in Ceylon at some point during that period. This was taken at Mussorie, well north of Dehli. My sense is this may be a father and son. The young soldier standing can't be more than 16,17 or so. Son of the regiment, no doubt.
Cheers
Bob
Attachments
011 (2).jpg
011 (2).jpg (151.61 KiB) Viewed 162 times
HLI (2).jpg
HLI (2).jpg (65.19 KiB) Viewed 162 times
Fathertime
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 17:22

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby jf42 » 16 Feb 2017 06:39

T.F Mills at the archived 'regiments.org', has these stations for the 2nd Bn HLI (Former 74th)


1880? Scotland
1881.07.01 2nd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry
1881 England: Aldershot
1882 Egypt
1883 England
1884 India: Dagshai
<1889> Peshawar
<1892> Fyzabad
<1897> Cawnpore
1899 Ceylon

1902 Jersey
1904 Scotland: Edinburgh

The new regiment had yellow facings untl 1899 when they returned to buff.

http://web.archive.org/web/200712200012 ... /074-1.htm
User avatar
jf42
Senior Veteran member
 
Posts: 2146
Joined: 10 Mar 2011 15:12

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby Frogsmile » 16 Feb 2017 10:26

Especially interesting to see how the trews were cut widely at the ankle during that time, and also the 'full' shoulder plaids. The battalion did not arrive in Ceylon until well into the New Year of 1899, they were still in India in the January. http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/carl/n ... 899GAC.pdf

The youthfulness of the lad does suggest that he is one of the 'boys' on the battalion's establishment and, as he does not have a drum or lyre badge, he was probably employed with the sergeant shoemaker, or tailor until he came of age to take his place in a company.
Last edited by Frogsmile on 16 Feb 2017 14:42, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Frogsmile
Forum Fellow
 
Posts: 4542
Joined: 25 Jan 2011 20:17
Location: Wiltshire, England

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby grumpy » 16 Feb 2017 11:17

Interesting point about no band badge or drum badge on the lad.

When a boy soldier ["boy" was the junior sub-set of "private"] was judged competent on drum, flute and bugle duty, he was "appointed" as "drummer" if there was a vacancy on the establishment of 16, and got a massive pay rise if still a little under 18 years. {8d to 1/1-].
I believe [the rules etc are not specific enough] that would be when he was badged as such.
I haven't a clue about band status.

To summarise, I am not sure that "no badge" meant "not a member ", it is a grey area, at least to me.
grumpy
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 19:38

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby Frogsmile » 16 Feb 2017 14:37

grumpy wrote:Interesting point about no band badge or drum badge on the lad.

When a boy soldier ["boy" was the junior sub-set of "private"] was judged competent on drum, flute and bugle duty, he was "appointed" as "drummer" if there was a vacancy on the establishment of 16, and got a massive pay rise if still a little under 18 years. {8d to 1/1-].
I believe [the rules etc are not specific enough] that would be when he was badged as such.
I haven't a clue about band status.

To summarise, I am not sure that "no badge" meant "not a member ", it is a grey area, at least to me.


Yes that makes sense grumpy and I think you are probably right. What is confusing is that the trainee boys do often appear in images of the drummers on parade, or at least dressed in full review order, and one would not think that they should do so unless competent (albeit that a lot of errors are masked by the totality of drumming). The boys also appear regularly in unit photos and I think I have seen some wearing badges, especially lyres. As you say, a bit grey.
User avatar
Frogsmile
Forum Fellow
 
Posts: 4542
Joined: 25 Jan 2011 20:17
Location: Wiltshire, England

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby grumpy » 16 Feb 2017 16:08

I have dug the Pay Warrant 1914 out ........... I have earlier editions if anyone wants me to look.

Yes the "boy" was such and paid 8d per day "or is placed on the establishment of the band" in which case band pay was as for a private, 1/- per day plus band perks. Big incentive to study and work hard [and, in some units at least, to be allowed to smoke, drink and swear].
grumpy
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 19:38

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby gordon92 » 16 Feb 2017 19:20

I have always noticed with admiration how the HLI folded the plaid such that a white line in the scarf portion aligns with the vertical piping paralleling the buttons on the doublet. This is not an easy thing to do. Interestingly, those who wore the scarf plaid in the Seaforth Highlanders did not bother with this level of sartorial precision.
User avatar
gordon92
Participating Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 02:02
Location: Stratham, New Hampshire USA

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby jf42 » 17 Feb 2017 09:52

gordon92 wrote:I have always noticed with admiration how the HLI folded the plaid such that a white line in the scarf portion aligns with the vertical piping paralleling the buttons on the doublet. This is not an easy thing to do. Interestingly, those who wore the scarf plaid in the Seaforth Highlanders did not bother with this level of sartorial precision.


Was that a sartorial custom inherited from the 74th?
User avatar
jf42
Senior Veteran member
 
Posts: 2146
Joined: 10 Mar 2011 15:12

Re: CDV of 2 Highland Light Infantry soldiers

Postby gordon92 » 17 Feb 2017 19:00

jf42 wrote:
gordon92 wrote:I have always noticed with admiration how the HLI folded the plaid such that a white line in the scarf portion aligns with the vertical piping paralleling the buttons on the doublet. This is not an easy thing to do. Interestingly, those who wore the scarf plaid in the Seaforth Highlanders did not bother with this level of sartorial precision.


Was that a sartorial custom inherited from the 74th?


In the four 74th photos that I have at hand, it appears the 74th definitely did not engage in this practice.
User avatar
gordon92
Participating Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 02:02
Location: Stratham, New Hampshire USA


Return to Uniforms, Insignia, Equipment & Medals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest