British forces in Japan 1853-65

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British forces in Japan 1853-65

Postby Josh&Historyland » 09 Apr 2017 14:23

Fellow members, I'm pleased to share some exciting news. Fonthill has accepted my book proposal on the subject of the British in Japan.

Writing the thing is going to be fun, as some of you know I've been digging into this subject for a few years now. But what will be a challenge is sourcing the images without breaking the bank. To that end I'd like to appeal for help, especially from already published authors as to what to do and how to go about selecting images. Or indeed if anyone who collects Victorian images etc, and has something they would be willing to let me use, I'd be unendingly grateful.

As a basic guideline this subject encompasses:
Lord Elgin's mission to Japan.
Sir Rutherford Alcock's tenure as consul.
Colonel Neale's tenure as acting consul.
The Namamugi Incident.
The bombardment of Kagoshima under Admiral Kuper
The 2nd Bombardment of Shimonoseki. Under Admiral Kuper.
Ernest Satow features prominently
The basic area was covered Photographically by Beato.

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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby bill wright » 15 Apr 2017 15:39

DEAR JOSH

Best of luck with your project ! Every author probably has a different approach to sources for illustrations, some might prefer to use picture agencies (which charge money), others might delve into old books. Obviously, your best and most likely source are the illustrated newspapers of the period, especially the pages of the Illustrated London News, The Graphic and Pictorial World. The ILN has a site you can access but I think the service is not free. On the web you can probably find vols for sale for the ILN 1853-65 usually between £50-£200.
I guess you know George Woodcock`s "The British In The Far East" which has a fabulous colour cover of a British plenipotentiary kneeling before the Emperor of Japan (the book also has some good photos of Yokohama). I had a look at some autobiographies of British sailors and soldiers who were at Kagoshima etc., but so far haven`t turned up any good pix.
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby Waggoner » 15 Apr 2017 18:54

The ILN is a good source. Original copies can be found in many libraries and you can copy the images from them for free. Don't forget that members of the Military Train formed part of the embassy guard for awhile.

All the best,

Gary
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby Josh&Historyland » 25 Apr 2017 22:02

Many thanks for the thoughts Gentlemen the ILN has been a consideration but I'd been a bit stimied as to where to pick them up. Just confirming that I can freely use scans from a library or a personal collection?

Waggoner wrote:The ILN is a good source. Original copies can be found in many libraries and you can copy the images from them for free. Don't forget that members of the Military Train formed part of the embassy guard for awhile.

All the best,

Gary


Yes Gary, I was aware of the MT acting the part of the guard, and hope to include that. Do you have any specific ideas as to sources I could look at regarding them?

any further advice welcome.
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby Waggoner » 26 Apr 2017 01:04

Josh,

I seem to recall that there was an image and some narrative about this in the ILN. If I find anything else, I will let you know.

All the best,

Gary
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby mike snook » 26 Apr 2017 10:18

Josh,

Rule 1. In order to make free use of a image, of any kind, its creator, who might be an artist, a photographer or a publisher, has to have been deceased for 70 years.

Here's the catch: things get copied, giving rise to Rule 2.

Rule 2. When something that is 'out of copyright' under Rule 1 above is reproduced, a new span of copyright, 70 years from the death of the creator of the reproduction is called into existence, but in respect only of the reproduction of the original. The original itself remains 'out of copyright' under Rule 1.

Rule 2 gives rise to a scam (as I would label it) practiced by many museums and galleries. They will deny access to original works of art by banning photography in their galleries, even by application, because that creates proliferation of (somebody else's) copyrighted copies of an original 'out of copyright' work in their possession. They will of course be delighted to SELL you a formal permission to reproduce one of their own in copyright reproductions of an out of copyright original.

And it's not just a few quid they want either. I regret to say that you can turn flick flacks on the moon, but even so will sell very few copies of your book due to the obscure subject matter, which you will know already and is in no sense a reason not to write it. You should and will because it's your calling. Even so there is every danger you will be out of pocket at the end of the process as a historian's expenses can be very great, especially if the subject matter calls for foreign travel. So setting whatever private income an author has to one side, he or she cannot afford to pay large sums for the typical spread of imagery that any publisher (and book-buyer) wants to see these days.

If you cannot source through private means one or two photos, (say), that you consider essential to your book, then you might have to pay a museum or gallery for them, but by working hard and asking for the help of other authors, libraries and the more user friendly museums and galleries, you should be able to come up with a good array of material for which you will either not have to pay, or not pay very much. When I did 'Cape Warriors' for example I obtained permission to use paintings in two private collections in return only for an acknowledgement and a gratis copy of the book.

It is good practice to acquire illustrated first or early editions of books published in the Victorian period, because in 2017 it is virtually a racing certainty that we will be more than 70 years beyond the death of the author, publisher and photographer...but you do need to check that you are on safe ground.

Sometimes you will find that those who are responsible within their organizations for permission to publish/reproduce will be amenable to waiving or reducing their standing fee when you explain that actually this project is not going to be at the head of the bestseller list and 'do me a favour pretty please' (!).

ILN original pages for your subject area are out of copyright, can be obtained relatively cheaply from specialist sellers (google away), can be photographed and used, and can then framed nicely to decorate your house/flat/study.

Hope that helps.

As ever,

M
Last edited by mike snook on 26 Apr 2017 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby mike snook » 26 Apr 2017 10:28

PS. Be very careful about images on the internet. People break copyright law all the time on the internet, more often than not posting images to which they do not own the copyright, creating the peril that if 'you' (not 'you' personally Josh) in turn pinch it, you will be the one left holding the parcel when the music stops. Call that Rule 3!

M
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby Josh&Historyland » 26 Apr 2017 12:45

Very helpful, Mike thank you very much for the expertise. I am treading very carefully with images, and as you suspected some of the best ones won't come cheap. I'm really quite shocked at first how much licensing fees are and by how many images publishers want for a non coffe table publication.
However, having gotten over my panic attack, I've been told, and the website seems to confirm this, that Getty has certain images that can be used for whatever reason the user likes so long as you attribute and send them a copy. SK Brown apparently also allows this, Mark used them for one of his books. Then there is British Library Flickr which seems again to indicate the above rules.
Added to that must definitely be an attempt to get hold of some of the images from ILN, and I've found some excellent things for sale on EBay to start with which should fit the bill nicely.

I also had the idea of creating a few images myself. Either copying some originals or painting some original scenes and scanning them. Never has it been an attractive thought to be held to ransom, by publishers or image banks! I'm also not above begging people for their own images... if anyone has a snap or engraving of HMS Euryalus or any of the aformentioned things, for instance you can have a copy of the book! :)

While you're on I was meaning to ask or message you about this project regarding a source you mentioned owning in another thread that spoke of the Royal Marines in Japan at this time, and during the engagement at Shimonoseki, I was wondering what it was?

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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby mike snook » 26 Apr 2017 13:44

Josh

Many 'original' photos, if it is that to which you refer as being potentially expensive, are not the only copies, so my advice would be don't give up on finding them somewhere else. Also don't think twice about appealing for them in places like this. In my experience private collectors are often very generous in their preparedness to share items from their collections.

Hmmm...was it perhaps 'the British Arms in China and Japan' to which I referred or a history of the RM? Can you link to the original reference I made?

As ever

M
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Re: The British in Japan 1853-1865.

Postby Josh&Historyland » 26 Apr 2017 23:16

Well, if any memebers have in their collections images of alluded subjects, or knowledge about some one willing to share, I'd be very grateful for their help!

Here's the thread, Mike. I have British Arms in China and Japan but don't remember coming across he details you provided a few years back.

http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8786&hilit=Shimonoseki&start=60

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Yokohama Mounted Volunteers Info wanted.

Postby Will Mathieson » 16 Jul 2017 03:57

I am looking in particular for information regarding the Yokohama Mounted Volunteers.

Captain Frederick Brine, Royal Engineers, a regular officer who had formed the Shanghai
Volunteers in 1861 and went on to form other corps at Hankow
and Yokohama.

Below the reason for my interest, a Wilkinson sword made in May 1866.
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Re: Yokohama Mounted Volunteers Info wanted.

Postby Maureene » 16 Jul 2017 07:48

A "snippet view" Google Search result says

Imperialism and Infomedia in Bakumatsu Japan: The View from Treaty-Port Yokohama
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=9jAeAQAAMAAJ
Todd S. Munson - 2004 - ‎Snippet view
"One recurring theme of the 1860s was the activities of the Yokohama Mounted Volunteers, the cavalry branch of a militia group organized in response to local anti-foreign violence. Since the Mounted Volunteers were not professional soldiers ..."
{This appears to come from page 401)
The book was published by Indiana University. Perhaps you could try contacting the author? Google gives TODD S. MUNSON, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Asian Studies. Director, Asian Studies Program. Randolph-Macon College email: tmunson at rmc.edu (change email back to usual format)

There is a link which you may have seen http://www.antique-swords.eu/Wilkinson- ... l-War.html

Another source. probably a long shot, may be the English language periodicals which covered China, Japan etc. Some online editions are linked on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page China
https://wiki.fibis.org/w/China

Cheers
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Re: Yokohama Mounted Volunteers Info wanted.

Postby Josh&Historyland » 17 Jul 2017 01:20

If it's any help Cpt Brine was an active chap in Japan. He was even mentioned in dispatches for his service at Kagoshima in 1863, and was indeed connected with the security of Yokohama that summer. I believe he was also, with another engineer officer, and alongside the with naval men, in the lead of the attack on the Stockade at Shimonoseki in 1864.

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