1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

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1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby David643 » 30 Oct 2009 12:08

I am researching the military career of a relative who was killed in action with the 1st Royal Dragoons at Abu Klea in January 1885.

He was one of a relatively small number of 1St Dragoons sent to join the Desert Column from the Regiment’s headquarters in Ireland. He was a private soldier under the command of Lt Burn-Murdoch.

I am trying to find any photographs of the 1st Dragoons for the period 1881-1885, which feature the other ranks and especially those joining the Heavy Camel Corps.

I would be most grateful for any assistance that Forum members can give in relation to where I ought to be directing my enquires to find potential sources for such a photograph.

Thank you very much for any assistance you are able to give me.

David
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby mike snook » 04 Nov 2009 19:49

Hi David

Thought you'd like to know that there was also a Pte Cordon in the 16th Lancers detachment who was also at Abu Klea but survived the campaign. His initial was J and his number 1585. Notwithstanding being a light regiment, the 16th L were also in HCR - so two Cordons in one small composite regiment. I'll bet they met. I suppose there has to be at least an outside possibility that they were related in some way. So far I can find no definitive references to the manner of 2087 A. Cordon's death. Sorry - but I'll keep looking. I stand by my earlier speculation that he was more than likely killed during the break-in and melee inside the square. If you've finished reading my book, you'll see the reason why I say that. The Royals were right in the thick of it eh?! Strange to think that the other Cordon would have been only a matter of a few yards away from your relative - and I mean only a few yards - 25/30 at most - (barring something flukey like illness which might have kept him back at the zareba - but no particular reason to think that) and yet one of them died and the other lived.

As ever

Mike
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby David643 » 04 Nov 2009 20:35

Hi Mike

Thank you for your posting. I'd caught up with the "Cordon" - and have discovered that his medals were sold in the recent past at auction. J Cordon was born in Stoke on Trent - Arthur was born in Chatham. We can't see an obvious connection at the moment - although Arthur's family originally came from Nottinghamshire which is closer to Stoke than Chatham is!

I have no trace, at the moment, on Arthur's medals. I am hoping that some medal experts may know where they currently reside. I have obtained copies of the medal roll entries but it's not quite the same as seeing the medals.

We've read "Jaws" - the relevant chapter a couple of times and trying to imagine what it must have been like for Arthur. Will "Jaws" be coming out in paperbook?

Looking forward to the new book next autum - hope alls going well with your work and you're making good progress. Please let us know when you have more information about publication dates and availability.

Thank you for keeping a watch for our "Cordon" - he may yet show up - probably on a charge sheet!

Best wishes
David and Julia
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby mike snook » 10 Nov 2009 22:10

Yebo, there will be a paperback edition but not for a good while yet. It's still available in hardback.

As ever

Mike
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby David643 » 10 Nov 2009 22:52

Thanks Mike
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby robinpimlott » 23 Dec 2009 13:54

Hi Mike/David,

I've read your posts with interest.

Excuse my ignorance but your book "Jaws". Can you tell me more? I'm not aware of it.

I'm researcing my GG Grandfather William Rose who was in the 1st Lifeguards and I was told by my Grandfather, before he died, that William was in the Heavy Camel Corps. I assume along side your relatives.

I've been unable to confirm his involvement one way or the other, as my research was cut short by the reorganisation of the Household Cavalry museum.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thanks

Robin
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby mike snook » 23 Dec 2009 17:11

Dear Robin

I regret to have to inform you that I can find but one soldier of that name in the whole of the Desert Column medal roll, and he is a Private T. Rose from the South Staffs detachment of the MICR who was KIA at Abu Klea. I have paid particular attention to anything with Guards in the title in case of confusion and he just ain't there I'm afraid. Perhaps your man became sick in Egypt and did not qualify for the medal - that is the only thing I can think of, or else of course you could have been misinformed. It is a commonplace enough thing: thousands of people go round saying that their great great uncle johhny was at Rorke's Drift.

There is a T.Roose in the Blues but not the same first name, let alone the last.

Sorry. Perhaps somebody else knows what became of him.

The Jaws reference is to my 'Into the Jaws of Death:British Military Blunders 1879-1900.' You can get it on amazon - but you might not want it now!!

Regards

Mike
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby robinpimlott » 24 Dec 2009 10:36

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated. I need to get William's service record from the Household Cavaly archives in Windsor. My research was cut short by the reorganisation of the museum. Perhaps he was involved in the campaign two years ealier and my Grandfather got mixed up. I do know he was in the 1st Life Guards for certain from 1869 to 1890. I know William's son Henry has two medals from the later campaign including Omdurman. He was an Armourer Seargent in the 24th Regiment. Both my Grandfather and Farther were involved in the Suez crisis, so the family has some history with conflicts in Egypt.

I'm pretty sure I have your book, I must check for sure, and I look forward to to your new one also.

Many Thanks

Robin
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby mike snook » 11 Jul 2010 21:11

Dear David and Julia

I can't remember whether I've come back to you on the fate of your ancestor 2087 Pte A S Cordon (that's exactly how he is listed) on the basis of the HCR casualty return compiled by Maj Byng (as Acting Adjt) at Gubat on 23 Jan. This divides the fatal casualties between those who were killed in th zareba and those killed in the square. Your ancestor is listed as one of the latter.

That may be news or not! (I must be getting old).

As ever

Mike
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Re: 1st Royal Dragoons -Heavy Camel Corps and Abu Klea

Postby IanRose » 04 Jan 2017 18:03

Hi Robin

I have William's service record and a picture but from what I can tell it looks like a household artillery uniform so i am not 100% sure it is him, it could be one of his sons. I also have a picture of Henry George Howland Rose, his first son in uniform in later life.

From what ive found so far far William was never deployed during his 21 years in the lifeguards , but at least 2 of his 3 sons Henry and Charles (my great grandfather) were both stationed in Fort George, Madras, India. I dont know about his youngest son Alfred.

Regards

Ian
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