1822 E.I.C SWORD

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1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Paul Evenden » 01 Aug 2014 12:35

Hi all unsure if this is in the correct place if not can an admin move it to the correct one . I received this beauty today which I won at auction a few weeks back .Its in good original condition with staining on one side of the blade worse than other and a few dings t the back of the blade which look recent . A nice rampant lion on one side of the blade and number 12 with wings and lightening bolts on the other (A clue to the regiment of use ? ) .Blade length is 32 1/2 "

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as usual all thoughts and comments appreciated especially on ideas for the regiment etc
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby acanthus » 01 Aug 2014 22:21

Hi Paul,

Very interesting sword, with that particular motif.

At first glance one might expect that it may have been a sword for an officer of Artillery in the mid 1840s, or alternately an officer of Engineers before they adopted the scroll pattern guard however, I have looked through the 1851 East India Register & Directory, which is certainly an OK year the hilt/blade combination, and as yet, I've not been able to come to terms with the number twelve in reference to a regiment of the EIC Artillery or Corps of Engineers.

I assume you have already found all the markings, but by any chance, is there the title of Bengal, Madras or Bombay or such like anywhere amongst the etching; it might be considered unusual to have such a prominent number 12, without any indication of what the 12 represented.

If the original owner of the sword had transferred to or from the Artillery or Engineers to the Infantry, then the 12th Native Infantry of one of the three presidencies could be a possibility.

Regards,

Gordon
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Paul Evenden » 01 Aug 2014 23:14

Hi Gordon

I have taken another look at the blade and the only etchings apart from foliage are the Lion/engineers?/12 . I tried google for E.I.C regiments with a 12 and drew a blank so was hoping someone may have a clue .Nothing on the Hilt/Guard either .May have had more info on the scabbard which unfortunately it didnt come with. I will carry on scoring the net for an answer :D


cheers Paul
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby MikeS » 02 Aug 2014 06:37

Paul,
The only thing close to a clue that I can find is in the "Bombay Artillery List of Officers" by Col. F.W.M. Spring. There was a 12th company of Native Artillery raised on March 28, 1846, they were then designated the 5th company 4th Battalion on the 20th July 1846, so that gives about 4 months of an artillery unit with a 12. There may have been similar instances in Madras and Bengal as well that you can check into. Nice sword BTW.
Cheers,
Mike
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby acanthus » 02 Aug 2014 07:50

Maybe a search for a Pioneer Corps might turn something up.
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby acanthus » 02 Aug 2014 08:22

Just saw your post Mike, the sword could certainly fit within those dates. Very interesting stuff, and I have found one chap who might also fit the date.

In the list for 1849, he is recorded as:

Season of Appointment 1846 - Charles Edwin Allom - Bombay Artillery - 2nd Lieutenant -

Rank in the regiment 24th November, 1846

Rank in the Army 12 June, 1846

Being with number 4 under the heading of Brig. or Batt.
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Paul Evenden » 02 Aug 2014 15:57

Wow guys immense thanks for that information i am stunned at how quickly you have come up with a lead like that between yourselves .God this is why i love collecting militaria or the history and it came off bidding on this sword as I knew nothing about the blade , was after it for the hilt/guard primarily o go with my collection brass ones .

once again cheers guys

Paul
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Paul Evenden » 02 Aug 2014 16:25

seems like our 2nd lieutenant Allom had a short carrear as I have just found this on the net

Allom - 2nd Lieutenant Charles Edward - Bombay Artillery - died 23rd November 1849.
Born 1827. Served in the Punjab 1848 (medal and 2 bars).
Grave at Peshawar - "Sacred to the memory of Charles Edward Allom 2nd Lieut. Bombay Artillery who died at Peshawur Novr 23rd 1849 aged 22 years."

cheers
Paul
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby acanthus » 02 Aug 2014 21:19

Paul,

Whilst we can't say conclusively that Allom is the person who owned the sword, all the pieces seem to fit the puzzle very well, in particular the information from Mike on the 12th Company of Native Artillery being raised in March 1846, the number 12 and the Artillery motif on the blade, and Allom's date of rank in the army of 12th June 1846, whilst the 12th were still in existence with that number, and just before artillery officers adopted the Light Cavalry sword. If Allom was the man, his short life was not without some action in a notable campaign as you have just pointer out.

Based on my own experience, I also make the comment that East India Company officers swords with regimentally marked blades are certainly quite scarce, and having the guard with the EIC crest is not only a very attractive feature, but conclusive proof that the sword was owned by an EIC officer, and not a British Army officer, and very important in relation to a study such as this.
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Paul Evenden » 02 Aug 2014 23:34

I bow to yours and Mikes far better knowledge on this subject I am a mere beginner who gets lucky now and again when buying my swords.I guess if we are saying that the id is correct then this post needs to be moved to the Sikh wars section of the site poor Allom never made it as far as the mutiny .

The date of his death I assume either means he lived with serious injuries from battle only to succumb later , or like many died from a life threatening illness. That will take a little more research :D
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Billy Fish » 17 Aug 2014 22:19

Hi Paul,

Reference the sword and possible previous owner 2nd Lieut Charles Edwin ALLOM,Bombay Artillery died at Peshawur November 23rd 1849 aged 22 years

If you are able to acquire a copy of the Journal of the Army Historical Research Society Volume LV No 223 Autumn 1977, there is a write up on
Lieutenant Allom together with a a photograph of painting of him in full dress uniform of the Bombay Artillery prior to going India. The portrait was painted by his father Thomas Allom

In the portrait he is also wearing a sword, described in the text as the sword scabbard is of black leather with gilt mountings, the hilt is also gilt with gold sword knot and bullion tassels.

Hope this may be of use.
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Billy Fish
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby Paul Evenden » 19 Sep 2014 02:30

Thanks Billy hadnt realised you had replied sorry for that and thanks for the lead on the journal i will chase it up :D

Paul
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 30 Oct 2014 13:55

Hi! I just came across this thread, but I have done a little looking for Lt. Allom. His obituary was published in "The Indian News and Chronicle of Eastern Affairs: 1850" (page 57):

We regret to have to announce the death at Peshawur, on the 22nd of Nov. last, in the 23rd year of his age, of Lieutenant Charles Edwin Allom, of the Honourable East India Company's Bombay Artillery. Lieutenant Allom was the second son of Thomas Allom, esq., the well-known architect. He had highly distinguished himself at Addiscombe, and was regarded as a promising young officer. He was present during the memorable siege of Mooltan, where he commanded a battery of five guns; afterwards at the battle of Guzerat, in which he had a similar charge. He accompanied Sir Walter Gilbert in his pursuit of Shere Singh, and finally remained at Peshawur, where he was attached to the survey department, the arduous duties of which contributed to the early close of his useful career. His death will be deeply mourned by his sorrowing family, and the numerous friends to whom his many virtues had fondly endeared him.

His obituary in "The United Service Magazine" is a bit shorter:

Nov. 22, 1849, at Peshawar, Lieutenant Charles Edwin Allom, of the Bombay Artillery, the second son of Thomas Allom, Esq., of Ballam hill.

An obituary in the "Sussex Advertiser" (29 Jan 1850) is as follows:

Allom.—November 22, 1849, at Peshawur, after an illness of three weeks, Lieutenant Charles Edwin Allom, of the Bombay Artillery, second son of Thomas Allom, Esq., Balham hill.


Interestingly enough, I cannot seem to find any HEIC Cadet Application Papers for him. Has anyone else succeeded with this? If I can find anything else, I'll post some more. :)

Regards,
Sarah
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Re: 1822 E.I.C SWORD

Postby swordcollector1 » 18 Sep 2015 15:27

Sorry all, came to this thread a bit late, but there's an obituary of Allom in De Rhe-Philipe's Soldiers of the Raj - pic attached.

Allom - Soldiers of the Raj.jpg
Allom - Soldiers of the Raj.jpg (103.81 KiB) Viewed 779 times


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