Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 1857

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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby Les Waring » 21 Feb 2015 10:57

Dear pmgibson
Thanks very much for your message. It's always great for me to receive more about the Luvknow ODs, and especially the men of the 32nd who served the full 'tour of duty' in India (1846-1859). I have a few references to him which I'll have to get together. I seem to remember that one of them was related to an incident for which a Victoria Cross was awarded to another man.

His regimental number was 2533 and his recorded wounds were on 5 July, 11 August and 2 November (all 1857), though he may , of course have been wounded on other occasions. He was certainly seriously ill, as he was invalided to England before the main body of the 32nd left India. I also have a record of Privates Henry and Thomas Webster on the 32nd’s roll during the Siege. Any chance that they were relatives?

The medal you mention was the Punjab campaign medal (with clasps for Mooltan and Gujerat – various spellings) for the Second Anglo-Sikh War. He would also have received the Indian Mutiny Medal (IMM) with the clasp for Defense of Lucknow, the most valued (and expensive) of medals for that campaign. If you still have the medals , take good care of them, they have great sentimental (as well as considerable monetary) value. I’m NOT a collector by the way.

Did he leave any written record, letters etc., of his experiences at Lucknow? I already have 5 accounts (3 published) by men of the 32nd, and I’m trying to put together a full account of the regiment’s activities between 1846-59 for eventual publication, when my current circumstances (re family health) improve. Anything from Saml. Webster would be invaluable. Also the age he gave on enlistment.

Do you know anything of the condition of his gravestone? Perhaps the local History Society could help. Sml. Webster was a TRUE British hero and deserves all the respect we can afford him.

Very Best

Les Waring
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby Les Waring » 21 Feb 2015 11:47

pmgibson

Looking further at my materials, I find that Samuel Webster was with the 60th Rifles (Reg.no 1922) before joining the 32nd. Since he enlisted in 1843, he may have exchanged regiments before the 32nd left for India in 1846. Do you have any idea when he exchanged? If you have his service record, available at the National Archives, this should tell you.

Best

Les W.
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby Les Waring » 21 Feb 2015 19:35

pmgibson

I was mistaken in my first post on this topic in saying that Samuel Webster was associated with an action for which another man was awarded the Victoria Cross. In fact, there were a number of sorties on 29 September 1857, aimed at dislodging the rebels from positions to the north west of the Residency compound in the direction of the Iron Bridge. (Maps and plans are available on internet.)
In fact, Samuel Webster was with (then) Captain John Edmonstoune on one of these sorties. Edmonstoune states in his recommendation for Samuel Webster to receive the Victoria Cross, (File WO32/7336 held at the National Archives, Kew, London).

‘’ On the 29 September 1857. Pte. Samuel Webster No.8 Company accompanied me in a Sortie towards the Iron Bridge and Ismaelgunge in which we took and spiked 5 light guns and mortars and burst a 24 pounder gun he was the first of all the men at the guns. ... we suffered very heavily on our retiring and not being able to lead the men myself on account of being shot down by a musket ball in the head, this man Webster headed the remainder of the company and most zealously supported Lieut Graydon, who was the guiding officer... Lieut. Graydon told me that he never had seen a braver or cooler soldier and recommended him to Sir J. Inglis.’

Unfortunately, when the recommendations for 10 men of the 32nd to receive the V.C. were considered by a board of officers, from other regiments, at Dover after the regiment’s return to England in 1859, Webster’s case was not one of the three passed on to the Army Headquarters at Horse Guards and, via the War Office, for Royal Approval, to receive the decoration.

best

Les W.
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby pmgibson » 21 Feb 2015 23:47

Hi, this is all extremely interesting!
I visited the churchyard in Bulwell where many Websters are buried last year but didn't come across Samuel's, although I wasn't aware that it existed until last week. I will ask my father if he can find anything out and I will try and get in contact with the church or local history society. I will be visiting Nottingham again at Easter so if it still exists I will take a photo. As for whether the other Websters you mention are related, I will search my family tree to see if I can find any connection.
regards, Patricia
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby pmgibson » 21 Feb 2015 23:52

Regarding the medals, We don't possess them and have no idea which family member would have received them. I don't believe Samuel had any children but he did marry when he returned home. He died in 1875 and his widow remarried. I am not sure whether she went on to have any children by her second husband, but again I will search Ancestry to see if there are any clues as to who may have them.
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby CharlesVolkers » 13 Jun 2015 11:16

I would very much like to access the latest OD list so any advive please on how to do this?
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby Les Waring » 15 Jun 2015 01:14

Mr Volkers

My Lucknow OD list, which I claimed on another thread to be the most complete one 'available', exists only on my computers and one, heavily annotated, print-off. As I've stated, it is incomplete and, given that I will not be able to go to Britain to continue research in the near future (family health problems), is likely to remain so. It was originally intended to be an appendix to a book I've been writing for some years, on actions which led several ODs to receive the V.C., but I've decided to try to 'publish' it in some form or other separately as a stand-alone.

As I am now in possession of more free time than over the last few years, I have decided to make one last 'big push' to add some names/details to the list before attempting publication, so this is a final appeal for info. on this forum, which has been incredibly helpful. Any suggestions as to how to go about publishing would be gratefully received - it's not book length. I would, ideally, like to earn a modest amount of money :roll: , from this and my other work on the Lucknow Siege, purely with the aim of financing further research.

In short, if you have any enquiries about specific people (and I only have a list of ODs not of the relieving forces) I'd be glad to try to help you, as so many have done for me. Otherwise for the moment, I'm afraid that Rees and Brig. Inglis' official list of ODs are the best publically available, as far as I know.

Best

Les W.
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby philafghan1878 » 02 Oct 2015 14:11

Hi. I am a new member and I am hoping that somebody can help me with a request. I am trying to establish if a J.McCarthy, 32nd L.I. was an original defender at the Defence of Lucknow, and if i can find any oyher details about him. Regards Phil
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby Frogsmile » 06 Oct 2015 18:17

Les Waring wrote:Mr Volkers

My Lucknow OD list, which I claimed on another thread to be the most complete one 'available', exists only on my computers and one, heavily annotated, print-off. As I've stated, it is incomplete and, given that I will not be able to go to Britain to continue research in the near future (family health problems), is likely to remain so. It was originally intended to be an appendix to a book I've been writing for some years, on actions which led several ODs to receive the V.C., but I've decided to try to 'publish' it in some form or other separately as a stand-alone.

As I am now in possession of more free time than over the last few years, I have decided to make one last 'big push' to add some names/details to the list before attempting publication, so this is a final appeal for info. on this forum, which has been incredibly helpful. Any suggestions as to how to go about publishing would be gratefully received - it's not book length. I would, ideally, like to earn a modest amount of money :roll: , from this and my other work on the Lucknow Siege, purely with the aim of financing further research.

In short, if you have any enquiries about specific people (and I only have a list of ODs not of the relieving forces) I'd be glad to try to help you, as so many have done for me. Otherwise for the moment, I'm afraid that Rees and Brig. Inglis' official list of ODs are the best publically available, as far as I know.

Best

Les W.


Les, with regard to publication, have you seen this post: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10854
Worth a punt surely?
sq
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby susanandsav » 04 Jun 2016 11:42

Hi I am new to this so here goes. My great grandfather was corporal Thomas Bolton he became a Sargent before leaving India he was with the 84th regiment and recieved a defence bar and a lucknow bar I know a lot about him but I am not sure if he was with the 84th soldiers sent by wheeler to lucknow or if he came with havelock is there any way I can find out? Regards susan
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Re: Original Defenders of Lucknow Residency 1 Jul-24 Sep 185

Postby Les Waring » 27 Apr 2017 14:57

Hi

Sorry for the delay in replying to susanandsav. I don't have a Bolton on my list of those members of the 84th who were ODs of the Lucknow Residency, who I believe I have identified with 95% certainty.

During my recent (Feb-Apr 2017) visit to UK and especially the National Archives, I spent many 'happy' hours trawling through the lists of Lucknow prize money awarded to the 32nd and 84th Foot, a pity I didn't have time to make proper preparations before going. My next 'sortie' is planned for the later months of this year or early 2018, and I'll keep a look out for him. Another way of checking on him would be to consult the 84th's muster rolls for the the period, also at the NA.

If he received a 'Defence' clasp he would have been with the Havelock-Outram column in the First Relief, September 1857.

Incidentally, I was also able to identify the companies to which each member of the 32nd was attached. However, due to the heavy casualty rate during the Siege and the fact that men were attached in small numbers to the different 'garrisons', their belonging to a particular company may have had little significance. Since they were retained as a body in Brigadier Inglis' HQ as a 'flying reserve', the same problem would not apply in identifying the company of the 84th who were ODs.

Best

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