3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 19 Jan 2018 17:23

Paul knowles wrote:Hi Sarah,

That is extraordinary. I had assumed that he died and was subsequently buried at Balaklava. I am extremely grateful for your time and the attachments. I have seen the church Baptism records for Charles and his brother, William and visited the parish church of St Peter and St Paul in Fitz (Its only a few miles from home) hoping to see a headstone to one of the Crofts, but sadly not. The local stone is sandstone so most have worn and become indistinct. I will contact the Curate and ask to meet them on my next visit and hope to identify where his brother and parents are buried.

Sarah, I have a favour to ask of you. Before enlisting Charles worked as a groom in the Village of Middle/Myddle, Shropshire to Reverend John Majoribanks Nisbet. Middle was his first Parish and I should imagine he relied on Charles a good deal as he was local. The Reverend came from a wealthy family and became well known in his own right, becoming a Cannon. Their must be some mention in Newspapers of his time as Curate? Could you please take a look?

Thank you again for your help.

Kind regards

Paul


Hi!
Absolutely! I can look for anything that will help you. I will look for his name in anything. Do you know any other details about him (years, wife, children, etc.)?

I have added Rev. Nisbet to FindaGrave.com. I would love to transfer the memorial to you there. Do you have an account, or would you like to make one? Let me know. I also added Charles, his father and two infant siblings (William and Elizabeth). I'd be happy to transfer those as well. You may even be able to add info and photos, as you live near the church. Charles' parents are Joseph and Ana. I can find Joseph buried at the church, but I cannot find Ana. If you come across any info about her, let me know.

Sarah
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Paul knowles » 21 Jan 2018 22:46

Hi Sarah, Sorry for not responding sooner, just back home. Thank you for helping with Reverend John Majoribanks Nisbet. This is what I have so far. He was born 26th April 1824 in Madras, India (East Indies) His father, Josiah Nisbet was a Senior merchant with the Honourable East India Company, Madras Civil Service 1806-1834 at Dharwar, South Mahratta, India.

His mother Rachael's father, was Sir John Marjoribanks (Ramsay) who became Lord Provost of Edinburgh in 1814 and twice MP for Bute and then MP for Berwick. He gained his BA in 1846 and his MA in 1851 from Balliol College, University of Oxford. He
married Laura Elizabeth Kingscote, daughter of Henry Robert Kingscote and Harriett Elizabeth Tower, 10th May 1864 at St. George Hanover Square, London. They had one son,Henry Kingscote Nisbet born 21st September 1865 at 16 Bedford Square, London.
The reverend Nisbet had a distinguished career, following his time at Middle, Shropshire he became Rector at Deal, Kent,and Vicar at Margate between 1856 and 1867.He held the office of Canon of Norwich Cathedral between 1867 and 1892 and was the Rector of the prestigious St. Gile's in the Fields, in the Borough of Camden, in the West End of London. While there he was made Honorary Chaplain to the 37th Middlesex Rifle-Volunteer Corps. (St. Giles and St. George's) Ref London Gazette 13th September 1867. He had also been Chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury.Reverend John Majoribanks Nisbet died 1st September 1892 at Torrington, Devon. His wife Laura died 15th July 1927.

I'm afraid I do not have an account with FindaGrave, but will look into that. I'm surprised their is no mention of Ana? I know that Joseph out lived her by some years and they always lived in Fitz. I will contact the Curate and ask for their help, I'm sure something will turn up. Sarah, thank you again for your help.

Kind regards

Paul
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 21 Jan 2018 23:54

Here are a few newspaper results right off. Searching for a place called "Middle" is a bit hard, because the search engine brings up all kinds of stuff. :)
Do you want results only from before his 1856 appointment?

A FindaGrave account is very simple and easy to make, and it doesn't require anything or action or stuff like that. I'll give you the memorials, though, and you'll be able to edit them all you want. You can write things in the bio section, control pictures, etc. Here's a link to my profile there, and you can just send a message, and then I'll transfer the memorials.
https://www.findagrave.com/user/profile/47673273

I will keep looking, plus I will have another look in those records for Ana's burial.
Sarah
Attachments
Nisbet, Rev JM Deal Kent Morning Advertiser 17 Mar 1856 page 4.JPG
Nisbet, Rev JM Deal Kent Morning Advertiser 17 Mar 1856 page 4.JPG (50.14 KiB) Viewed 186 times
Nisbet, Rev JM Receives Degree Leeds Intelligencer 28 Jun 1851 page 4.JPG
Nisbet, Rev JM Receives Degree Leeds Intelligencer 28 Jun 1851 page 4.JPG (104.45 KiB) Viewed 186 times
Nisbet, Rev JM Patriotic Fund South Eastern Gazette 28 Nov 1854 page 4.JPG
Nisbet, Rev JM Patriotic Fund South Eastern Gazette 28 Nov 1854 page 4.JPG (99.8 KiB) Viewed 186 times
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Paul knowles » 22 Jan 2018 22:04

Hi Sarah,

I can see the problem with 'Middle' but delighted with what you have found. I was hoping for some detail surrounding his time as Curate of Middle before his 1856 appointment. I know its going to be a long shot. Many thanks for the information about FindaGrave, I have looked and what a good idea as a memorial and to help future researchers.

With my glass always half full, It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a photograph exists of a pony and trap with the Reverend and his groom??

Thanks again Sarah

Kind regards

Paul
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 22 Jan 2018 22:43

Paul knowles wrote:Hi Sarah,

I can see the problem with 'Middle' but delighted with what you have found. I was hoping for some detail surrounding his time as Curate of Middle before his 1856 appointment. I know its going to be a long shot. Many thanks for the information about FindaGrave, I have looked and what a good idea as a memorial and to help future researchers.

With my glass always half full, It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a photograph exists of a pony and trap with the Reverend and his groom??

Thanks again Sarah

Kind regards

Paul


Never give up hope for a photo. I say that knowing just what it feels like. I have my own hero adopted relative from the Crimea. He died at Inkerman, was awarded a medal with four clasps, etc. I have been researching him for several years. Worked with the family to go through things. Letters survive, a lock of hair, three swords, his medal . . . and who knows what else. But a picture. His whole family was painted tons. Tons of pictures dating from as early as 1853 . . . but my gent is missing. Aside from a profile as a very young boy in Eton uniform with his brothers (a painting), nothing has turned up. I totally refuse to admit defeat yet, though. The family books have all kinds of 1853-4 pictures of other buddies who went to the Crimea. Including a beautiful one showing a friend in uniform seated in front of a hut or barracks --- and this gent has never had a known photograph and was even written up in the "Heroes of the Crimea" books from the time! But, there was his gorgeous photo. Never give up. I'm not. I know there is one of my Granville out there somewhere.

Anyway, back to the real subject here! I am going to keep trying in the papers. And I wouldn't give up either, because it may be as simple as the local paper not being digitised yet. Since you are local, I would not hesitate to contact your local libraries and find out if an archive of any local papers from that time frame are still held. In Ireland that is often the case, so it might prove that way in Middle or Fitz, too!

Please, do get on FindaGrave and let me give you the memorials. If the FindaGrave bug bites you, you can always take pictures of any plaques or stones left at the church and add those people on as well! You never know where it leads . . .
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Paul knowles » 24 Jan 2018 20:34

Hi Sarah,

You are right, never give in! I have been collecting one thing or another for years and it is often quite astounding what turns up although it does take persistence and patience. The UK's oldest surviving newspaper is the 'Shrewsbury Chronicle' (Est 1772) so that will certainly be my first port of call, together with Shrewsbury Library, which incidentally is where Charles Darwin was educated.

So I have lots to go at and will keep you up to speed if I find anything interesting.

Very much appreciate your support Sarah.

Kind regards

Paul
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 26 Jan 2018 00:48

I think you have some great ideas to look into the Chronicle and the library. Hope you find something. I will continue to check through things on the digital stuff I can access as well. And don't hesitate to ask for those FindaGrave memorials. :)

Speaking of not giving up on a project like this, here is a page that I wrote about the whole search for a young HEIC Lieutenant that I worked on. I spent two years trying to find him, and it was certainly an experience in "not giving up" . . . even when it looked like I should. As it turns out, you will see that there was a portrait of him, not only in uniform, but also as a baby!!
http://eliotsofporteliot.com/pringles/finding-whw.html

Regards,
Sarah
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Paul knowles » 29 Jan 2018 11:36

Hi Sarah,

Sorry for not responding sooner.

I thought your research regarding Lieut. W.H.W. Pringle was fascinating and very well presented. (Unlike mine) This "not giving up" really paid off. I will join FindaGrave when I have a moment, it will be a fitting addition for any relative/researcher in the future.

Kind regards

Paul
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Frogsmile » 29 Jan 2018 14:09

It might be of interest to know that in 1852 the 21st Foot (Royal North British Fusiliers) were based in Hull where they remained until June 1853. In January 1854 they are listed as having moved into barracks in Dublin. In Aug 1854, the 21st Foot embarked at Cork for the Black Sea. It landed in the Crimea with Sir George Cathcart's Division. I enclose an image that approximates how his uniform would have looked.
Attachments
5f122ed3beca2cb5ba0be9241a40c078--crimean-war-military-uniforms.jpg
5f122ed3beca2cb5ba0be9241a40c078--crimean-war-military-uniforms.jpg (135.5 KiB) Viewed 73 times
Last edited by Frogsmile on 02 Feb 2018 14:04, edited 1 time in total.
sq
Relic of many a fight and siege and sack, it points a moral and adorns the back.
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Paul knowles » 30 Jan 2018 21:27

Hello Frogsmile,

Many thanks for the information regarding the movements of the 21st Foot. Charles Croft enlisted 29th April 1852 so he would have been in barracks in Hull? This I did not know. Thank you for taking the time to look, very much appreciated. Regards Paul
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Frogsmile » 02 Feb 2018 13:02

Paul knowles wrote:Hello Frogsmile,

Many thanks for the information regarding the movements of the 21st Foot. Charles Croft enlisted 29th April 1852 so he would have been in barracks in Hull? This I did not know. Thank you for taking the time to look, very much appreciated. Regards Paul


Yes it is extremely likely that he joined his regiment in Hull (its full title Kingston upon Hull), Paul. I am intrigued by this because I had at first been unable to discover unequivocally where the barracks concerned were located, and the known barracks, 'Wenlock' and 'Londesborough' were all built later on.

After some investigation I strongly believe that the 21st were probably in the old 'Citadel', which had been a regular army barracks for many years, but said to have been given up by the ordnance office for military use in 1848. My guess is that as the giving up any military use was declared in 1848, but not actually finalised until 1858, It seems very likely to me that the 21st participated in preparing the Citadel for its eventual hand over to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests authorities.

The living conditions would have been very spartan, as they typically were for British soldiers at that time and the 21st might well have been the very last unit to be based in the Citadel, as it seems unlikely to have been occupied after the Crimean War. The Crown finally sold the Citadel in 1859, and it was demolished 1863-64.

1. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/yo ... /pp412-418

2. https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/ ... ry/1020426
Attachments
805006_171bcb66.jpg
805006_171bcb66.jpg (75.44 KiB) Viewed 73 times
7778-6962-LB.jpg
7778-6962-LB.jpg (182.91 KiB) Viewed 73 times
ERY_FG_2005_4730.jpg
ERY_FG_2005_4730.jpg (142.96 KiB) Viewed 73 times
003KTOP00000044U037H0000[SVC2].jpg
003KTOP00000044U037H0000[SVC2].jpg (86.72 KiB) Viewed 73 times
citadel.jpg
citadel.jpg (124.25 KiB) Viewed 73 times
Last edited by Frogsmile on 04 Feb 2018 11:20, edited 1 time in total.
sq
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Re: 3379 Private Charles Croft 21st Foot

Postby Paul knowles » 03 Feb 2018 13:39

Hello Frogsmile, what a surprise to see your message and research, I am delighted, thank you for taking the time. The marvellous thing about this forum, is not only talking to like minded but the effort perfect strangers are prepared to undertake to add a little piece of the jigsaw which we hope will create a picture for generations to come.

I visited the village of Fitz recently where Charles Croft was born, it is only a few miles away. I visited the church where his parents were married and where he and his twin brother were baptised. His brother like his father are buried in the church yard. Sadly, we now know that Charles lies at the bottom of the Baltic Sea, a far cry from the pastures of Shropshire.

I will include your attachments and notes into Charles research, and thank you again for your help.

Best regards

Paul
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